WW: Hey, this is Unlimited Hangout. I'm your host Whitney
Webb, contributing editor of Unlimited Hangout and today I'm
joined by editor in chief of Bitcoin magazine and author of
The Bitcoin Dollar, Mark Goodwin, to discuss some of our
recent collaborations over the past few months. Those articles
specifically the most recent which are tokenized ink and debt
from above, both of which can be found at unlimited hangout in
Bitcoin Magazine focused on the specifics and generalities of
the sweeping global effort to put everything in Yes, I mean,
everything on the global unified ledger with unique identifiers
in order to enable the new financial system that will
launch in earnest well before 2030 But that seems to be the
year that a lot of this stuff rotates around in this new
financial system rests on a few pillars. Those include
interoperable digital ID and Internet where you're not
allowed to be anonymous. There isn't even the illusion of
privacy, interoperable digital wallets that enable both public
and private sector, programmable answer vailable money and energy
and commodities this currency and another one being the
tokenization of real world assets. And a key component of
the system involves the tokenization and securitization
of the natural world, which is converting natural resources and
to tokenize representations of natural capital that can be
stored and treated on a global network of interconnected
digital wallets and exchanges. Every tree every stream reduced
to carbon and water credits to be traded in sweeping new
markets that are underpinned by mass surveillance, voluntary and
name only, and imposed upon the planet under the guise of saving
it. However, the tokenization won't stop there beyond natural
capital. We have social capital, we have human capital, and the
plan is to have all of it even the most mundane, controlled,
surveilled and made tradable through blockchain technology
and marketed as salvation, salvation for the planet, the
economy, our society. But as we will discuss today, this
marketing is all a ruse for theft in a coup so massive that
millions of dollars are being spent precisely on distracting
the public from what is being foisted upon us until the time
that they believe it will be too late to change it. So Mark and I
in our recent articles have been picking away at different pieces
of the system. And another key unifying theme is the role of
debt in this new monetary paradigm. And in efforts to
sustainably develop the world. The same groups that have used
it to rob pillage and economically enslave entire
countries are gearing up to do the same, but on a much grander
scale thanks to new technology, and the erosion of any policy
protections against plunder by the same financial criminals
that gave us the financial crises caused by junk bonds,
savings and loans collapses in the 80s, the collapse of
different currencies in the 1990s, the implosion of the
collateral mortgage obligations in 2008, I could go on the way
to defeat them as to systematically destroy the
trappings of altruism for planet and people in which they have
cloaked themselves and reveal what they are really doing
sucking us on the planet dry to feed their planetary Ponzi
scheme. So without further ado, Hi, Mark. Thanks for joining me
today to talk about all the stuff we've gotten into
recently. How're you doing?
MG: Very well, Whitney, thank you so much. It's great to be
here. I love unlimited hangout. It's always an honor to be here
and work with you guys. So thanks for having me. Yeah,
WW: absolutely. So you know, I sort of listed off a few of
these pillars of the financial system that we've been trying to
sort of demystify for people. And there's a lot of different
places we could go here. But maybe a good place to start is
what I alluded to in talking about the tokenization and
securitization of the natural world, we have this relatively
recent, I guess, you could say article called debt from above
the carbon credit coup, that's the first of a two part, maybe
more serious, we'll see. So up until this podcast, we've only
really done one interview talking about it. And there's a
lot we didn't get into in that particular interview. But
obviously, a lot of ground was covered. So maybe we could just
like sort of succinctly, if possible, it is a pretty long
piece, but sort of succinctly summarize, more or less what's
going on here in the context of this broader new financial
system that we are trying to pick apart.
MG: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's like, you know, it's
pretty wild. I think the story in general you know, it's, it
has very specific components to it. Very specific people as you
mentioned, you know, like people directly in the junk bonds, you
know, scanned or like literally here again, you know, people in
the CDO cmo popping with like Larry Fink, you know, are here
again, but I think with this with the debt from above piece,
you know, it really does. You know, it shows you the full
formation necessary to actually kind of enable the new financial
system and all the different components that you need.
There's a component of sub national and regional
government, you know, alliances, there's, there's a component of
satellite, you know, Earth observation, there's a component
of, you know, leveraging the Bitcoin Blockchain to be able to
actually trade and tokenize and create, you know, carbon credits
directly, you know, onto Bitcoin through our SK. And, and then of
course, there's like the registries, the insurance
companies, the people that are actually accrediting these,
these carbon credits and, and, you know, kind of, you know,
allowing the trading and selling of the tokenized versions of
these to, you know, to work in these regional and sub national
government alliances. So, you know, this is a really great
place to start, I think, in trying to explain where they
sort of want us to go with the modern, you know, the pillars
of, of the new economy, because it's all there everything that,
you know, you've been writing about, for years I've been
writing about is really showing up in this, you know, it's a
terrible word, because it means so much these days, but like in
this kind of conspiracy in the literal sense. There's coalition
all these people coming together to build this system. All the
all the pieces are there. So I think it probably makes sense to
kind of break it down and look at some of these things. It
might make sense to start with the green Plus program. And we
can kind of get to cc 35, get to Satellogic, get to RFK. Yeah, do
you want to maybe start off with the Green+ and kind of break
down? You know, why that's so important to this? You know,
understanding this this formation?
WW: Sure. So, yeah, essentially, what this article is about, I
would guess, then it's about green plus, which is an acronym,
but it refers to this program that they're attempting to
launch. sometime this week, actually, at least as far as
scaling it, they've been piloting it for a few years.
But, you know, watching it at scale supposed to turn out this
week. So essentially, what it's attempting to do, is to have
various municipalities throughout Latin America 1000s
of which have apparently signed on to, you know, sign these
these contractual obligations with these groups that are
running green plus, which is run by this consortium of different
groups that are, you know, we break down specifically and talk
about specifically in the article. And then those
contractual obligations are about these localities handing
over essentially their protected areas for to be used to produce
basically like farm carbon credits off of them. And the
idea is that they will be paid back, they will be dispersed
money that these carbon credits generate for the purpose of, you
know, conservation and things like that. But specifically,
conservation has to be with an approved partner approved by the
consortium. And the type of ones that are approving are the ones
that are all into this financialization, securitization
of, of nature, the so called nature based solutions, these
debt for nature swaps, things like that, that are perpetuating
the same thing we're talking about. It's not really
conserving anything fundamentally, or it's about
decarbonizing and decarbonizing has to be done with this
particular company that's partnered with other members of
the consortium that's trying to build an intercontinental smart
grid, you know, for power like smart meter style stuff. That's,
that's continent wide. So it's really a way of building this
technocratic system under the guise of weird, you know,
protecting the forest and conserving and decarbonizing,
you know, those are the words they're using to cope with, you
know, they're actually fundamentally doing which is
building you know, the grid of this technocratic system they've
been trying to, to build for for some time now and all part you
know, it's all part of this, you know, financial system, as we've
discussed, that's built on on surveillance, and
programmability of essentially everything and allowing
everything to be tokenized and treated, you know, essentially
as currency become tradable financial products, so green
pluses on just one indicator of others, we could point to as
well, of how this agenda has advanced relatively quickly. And
it's not just being advanced by the left quote, unquote, because
there's a lot of right leaning politicians involved. And of
course, as you alluded to a second ago, there's people from
the junk bond Scandal The 1980s in 1980s from Drexel Burnham
Lambert that are involved in green plus specifically are in
financing it, like Craig Kogut. Yeah, but there's other figures
too. sent as well, that sort of loom over this, like Richard
Sandor, the father of carbon trading, who was a senior vice
president at Drexel, when all of this happened is also the father
of derivatives and financial futures. Not only did he invent
carbon credit trading, he also wants to make water a market in
the same way, you know, clean water, a market of the same
style, and essentially turn everything into a derivative.
Which is, which is very crazy, obviously, when you think about
it, but you know, these guys have gotten away with so much I
don't think they really see it as crazy at all to just keep
going to the next level. And all they really have left at this
point is to do it to the entire world.
MG: Yeah, and put it on, I think the thing that's so interesting
about this iteration of it versus all the other ones is,
you know, it's the same games, same players, same debt
explosion, dollar denomination, but this time, there's like a
technical advancement, there's some sort of settlement layer,
some sort of ledger, that upholds a universal state, that
I think is really important about you know, it, it
diminishes the costs, extremely, for the people trying to kind
of, you know, do this, this debt base game, you know, because
before, if you're using, you know, kind of more traditional
base bonds systems, you know, you have to have, you know, you
know, bookmakers, you have to have, you know, large financial
institutions on either side, you need to have litigators, you
know, that are paid, you know, huge hourly wages, you know,
basically to uphold, and then, of course, you need governments
to kind of be, you know, the enabling environment, for these
types of like green bonds, green finance, junk bonds, you know,
these kind of speculative financial instruments to
actually, you know, just to settle, you know, you need all
of these players to uphold these instruments with Blockchain, you
know, you can mitigate it, you can mitigate those costs to just
a couple, in this case, directly with our SK rootstock with this
Bitcoin sidechain, to, you know, to a couple federated members,
Federation members, which essentially, is just people
picked by, you know, this organization that, you know,
runs the validators and the nodes, and a lot of these kind
of structures, the side chains are sort of built, as they're
kind of decentralized in name only. And they're kind of, you
know, banking off of the goodwill, you know, of the
distributed model of Bitcoin, I mean, that's why these are sort
of, you know, created as, you know, they're used as side
chains, rather than, you know, maybe on like, Etherium, or, you
know, some of these other other, you know, more obviously known
centralized figures, they use Bitcoin, because it has the most
kind of like sentiment behind it of being this like libertarian,
anti state, you know, product of the people this revolutionary
thing, which I think, in many ways is arguably true, of
course, but you know, also in a lot of ways in the same way that
it empowers, you know, the the unbanked or whatever, you know,
it empowers criminals, it empowers Military Industrial
Complex agents. So like, now we're really starting to see,
you know, the PayPal Mafia, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Steve
Mnuchin, Howie Lutnick of Cantor Fitzgerald, like all these
people really leaning into kind of hiding behind bitcoin, as
this, you know, you know, libertarian and cat movement to
actually, you know, basically make right wing carbon markets
and push people towards this green finance, which, you know,
you've been writing about for a long time, and a lot of these
green finance goals are, are some of the worst of the worst
of this private public paradigm. Yeah,
WW: so let's touch on that for a second. The whole idea of public
and private. I know we've discussed it a lot on some other
interviews, we've done the get together but I don't know if
necessarily on this podcast, but I think it's very important for
people to understand that the whole idea you know, like so
like take Larry Fink for example, Larry Fink was
demonized, quote unquote, and is now facing anti woke backlash
because he was considered a quote unquote, woke figure for
his promotion of ESG when he was on the west Board of Trustees,
I'm not sure if he's actually still there or not, but he was a
big proponent of of carbon markets and all of this stuff.
And, um, you know, while the backlash was happening, you
know, a year or two ago he said something to the effect that you
people misunderstand why I do this. It's you know, it's
because of the profits the returns.
MG: Yeah.
WW: That I will get and I think a lot of people don't really
understand what the carbon market is. I mean, people think
it's, you know, all just climate on the right anyway, they see it
as like climate change alarmism. And these are the reasons but
no, actually a lot of people on the quote unquote, right really
want carbon markets. And there's a reason that it's a carbon,
quote unquote, market also. And the idea up until this point has
been to frame it as a voluntary carbon market. But there's
obviously going to become a time when it ceases to be voluntary,
or it'll be voluntary in, in name only, not unlike, you know,
vaccine passports and things of that nature. And that's what a
lot of this other stuff is to beyond the carbon market that is
going to be part of this new financial system, the digital
wallet, the digital ID, it'll all be this voluntary in name
only and decentralized in name only. And they're going to
market it to us by making it look like a mix of public and
private players all harmoniously, you know, coming
together to make this truly decentralized system, but
they're really, you know, operating under the same rules,
they have the same goals. They are, you know, very interlinked.
A lot of these entities, when you look into them, they operate
under consortiums, for example, like ID 2021, being a relatively
well known one, a promoting digital ID that was really the
product of, you know, Bill Gates and the Rockefeller Foundation,
essentially. But argues for interoperable digital ID, let's
have a whole mix of all these different vendors and suppliers
of digital ID, but we want them to be interoperable because the
goal is to have it all be exportable to the same place. So
you get that centralization at the next layer. But it seems
like the public facing layer makes it seem like it's not all
the same thing. To give the illusion of competition,
MG: I think I think that's so funny, too, about using
Blockchain for like, decentralized ID systems. And
I'm doing air quotes, even though I didn't do them. Like
the it's a walled garden acceptance, like where they are
accepted, where these, these identifiers actually, you know,
are useful, you know, you still have to have some sort of
interoperability with like the DMV of California, or you know,
the bar that you want to get in and show your ID to prove that
you're over 21. Yeah, sure, you can do all this cool stuff,
where you can only show the verified credentials, you want
to show and just, you know, show the bar, you know, the doorman
at the bar that okay, you're over 21 Without revealing, you
know, normally when you give someone your license, right to
get into a bar, you tell them how tall you are, you tell them
what color your eyes are, you tell them if you have to wear,
you know, glasses to drive, you tell them your home address, you
know, there's a lot of like data, you're just giving up to
some random stranger to get into a bar just to be able to prove
or 21 Digital ideas, you know, have this this like, selling
point of like, well, just the Verify credentials you want to
show, it's like, well, you still have to have some sort of
interoperability with some centralized governance to create
that. So the DMV, or the US government Passport System, or,
you know, some sort of Interpol or some, you know, there has to
be some sort of centralized walled garden for these
decentralized blockchain token identifiers to work. You know,
it's, it's the idea of kind of decentralizing ID is kind of so
ridiculous, when the whole point of it of ID, what even is ID,
you know, like, there has to be this sort of, it's, it's useless
in on its own, it has to be, you know, you know, based on, you
know, you know, some sort of reputation, which requires some
sort of other, you know, consortium of people. So there's
so much just white, or I say, white washing, but you know,
decentralized washing, and a lot of these projects that just
don't really make a ton of sense. And as Fink says, you
know, it's about profits over everything. Well, the only thing
that's more important to these people in these these groups of
control than profits are like, is the data that allows them to,
to force the control. So yes, there's profits, which is a big
part for a lot of these people, of course, then the other side
of it is the all the data that it enables, and all the
surveillance and, you know, that's what these systems really
are, you know, they're databases, that's what Bitcoin
is, it's a database, that's what all these side chains are.
They're, they're pegged databases to Bitcoin that
settles that state, to Bitcoin. So it's like this really amazing
phase shift dialectic where they're pushing it as this, you
know, totally like freedom bringing a wonderful thing. You
know, because we control the node and we control the data.
But in reality, you know, it's creating a whole a whole public
open database where anybody can access this stuff. And so now
we're seeing them you know, use the blockchain I think, really,
the majority Uh, bitcoins life, you know, you haven't really
seen a ton of obvious, private public moves. It's really they
kind of just kind of let it grow and let it be its own thing. And
now we're in a new paradigm. You know, we're in a post ETF,
Blackrock world or Blackrock has, you know, what it's like
400,000 Bitcoin now or something. I mean, it's just
absurd. The US government has, like a million Bitcoin with
between the DOJ between, you know, private companies, you
know, buying up a ton of Bitcoin, you know, under, you
know, the jurisdictional arm of the US government. You know,
this idea that, you know, we're sort of that it's this anti
state thing, it's just really not true. And then you look at a
green plus, and you're starting to see this, not only is it, you
know, optimized for the dollar risers, now, it's being spread
out, you know, through Central and South America through, you
know, I think cc 35 is named that because of the 35 capital
cities, right? So we're seeing, like the sub regional national
governments agreeing to, you know, to participate in this
carbon market that literally involves Earth observation data
from Steve Mnuchin. And General Dunford, and, you know, the
richest man in Argentina, Marcos Galperin, and we're seeing, you
know, the, the, the dollar eyes, like the dollar rising,
basically, you know, move in and use, you know, the blockchain as
as as an enabling environment to like create a really scary
surveillance mechanism, not just nonprofits about surveillance.
WW: So I think we should talk on the surveillance aspect of green
plus, because when I was sort of giving a bird's eye overview of
the article, I didn't really talk about Satellogic at all,
which is the satellite firm really underpinning it all and
what actually led us to find the green Plus program in the first
place, because it's a it's a very spooky company. And I think
it also speaks to the importance like why the mass surveillance
agenda is so important to these people from the financial
perspective, because it gives them extreme predictability over
markets, and is risk reduction, among other things, but we can
get into that in a second. So Satellogic is the company that's
underpinning a lot of this green plus stuff, they do the
satellite surveillance, that's, you know, key to this whole new
carbon market model they want to use. And really quick before
going deep into Satellogic, I guess, it's worth mentioning how
that new model is going to be. So up until this point, the
voluntary carbon market, the current state of carbon markets
that we're in, have had a lot of problems with adoption. And a
lot of people on the left that are worried about climate
change, environmental groups have been very critical, not
just you know, people on the right, for example, that don't
want anything to do with it at all, but you have people on the
left that criticize it for being very grift, prone, and fraud
prone, which it has been I mean, there's been numerous cases
where the main carbon credits certifiers or other entities
that are issuing carbon credits are involved in creating them in
some capacity have been created completely fraudulent credits,
that, you know, there's been estimates that, you know, over
90% of the carbon credits in the existing voluntary carbon
markets are meaningless, meaning they don't actually offset
carbon or reduce carbon in any significant way. You know, it's
essentially just a new market being created, under you know,
certain metrics, but it doesn't even meet the metrics. It says
it's meeting and we're told we have to do this to save the
planet, but it doesn't actually do anything to save the planet
under its own metrics for existing. It's very insane. So
the way they're trying to get around this isn't to stop the
fraud and the grift or actually make a solution that works under
their own metrics, right? Instead, they want to ensure
carbon credits and create a new market for the insurance
industry. So there's been all these different companies that
have popped up, including existing insurance companies as
well, obviously getting in on this. And there, a lot of the
ways they're responding to this is by making new insurance
products, one class of them are called parametric insurance
products. And these are being marketed for climate unexpected
events, things like you know, climate change related events,
natural disasters, but also pandemics for example, things
like that. And the idea is, you know, having it payout at a
specific point. And so a lot of the the insurance angle of this
for carbon credits moving into that paradigm of carbon credits
it rests heavily on surveilling the area that the carbon credit
is being issued from the trees are essential, right, right. So
you Yeah, so Satellogic is providing that service and as
surveilling all of the localities that have signed on
to this, but the problem is the satellite company. Our career is
run by career US military contractors, they're teamed up
with SpaceX, and Palantir, which are the biggest contractors,
arguably, in terms of their significance and importance to
the intelligence community and to Space Force, which is the,
you know, essentially what they tried to do in the Reagan
administration, the military militarization of space. Now
we're having that advancing drastically, and being linked up
with Latin American municipalities through these
contracts that they're signing under the guise of green plus
their, you know, Space Force, people are essentially getting a
foot in the door this way. Indirectly, but we know how
these guys work. And they, if they can get in, they'll get in,
you know. So let's, I guess, talk a little bit about
Satellogic, who's on the board, you mentioned a few names, but
maybe we should spell it out a little more in their significance.
MG: I also just want to say just to the point of the parametric
insurance stuff, and a lot of this, like kind of the fraud of,
you know, the carbon market Gambit so far, I think it's
really important also to talk about, like, why a Satellogic is
important in this new paradigm, and why that blockchain is
important in this new paradigm. And it has to do with
settlement. Blockchain is is wonderful in when you know, when
you're using actual Bitcoin, because the settlement is final.
And there's no way to actually like refund a payment without
just generating a new one. You can't clawback a payment when
you're using Bitcoin, which is really important for these types
of Grifs. You know, because the government can't say, oh, hey,
you know, you know, you have a huge fine, you broke the law,
you need to do, you know, you need to give this money back, it
was stolen, it was taken, you know, no court can basically
say, Hey, we're seizing your funds, because it was gathered,
you know, illicitly, or, or, you know, you took advantage of
them, there's no litigator, that can that can, you know, revoke a
blockchain transaction. And then the other aspect of it, too, is
that, you know, they're called smart contracts. But they're
really dumb. They're super dumb, and they only run off of the
data that's actually inputted into them. So a company like
Satellogic, if you're trying to create these, like really fancy
green bonds that only pay out coupons, you know, based on, you
know, a reduction of a greenhouse gas or, you know,
some other, you know, metric right, parametric, some other
metric that you know, that the bond issuers agree upon using a
smart contract, you know, the data has to actually be fed into
the contract, otherwise, it won't, it won't settle. So,
again, this is a little bit like what you instar talked about on
your AI podcast that, you know, perhaps some of this is just,
you know, an ability to create a man behind the curtain and just
blame Oh, well, hey, it's, it's the smart train. It's the smart
contract. It's the blockchain, you know, but really, it's like
the federated, you know, seven guys in a room that agree on it.
Right. So there's a little bit of that being played into here.
And I think that's, that's important to understand that,
yes, I do think Satellogic does have these capabilities. I do
think, you know, this idea of remapping the planet, high
frequency, high resolution, you know, is a real fear that we
should have, but the way that they're framing it, you know, is
for this smart contract, you know, feeding of data into these
green bonds into these carbon credit market trading. So that's
sort of why Satellogic plays such an important role in this
municipalities, regional government agreements, it's
because in order to actually uphold a blockchain carbon
credit market, you know, you need a lot of data. So that's
sort of the primer for this. But yeah, let's get into this board,
because it's totally insane. Yeah, I don't know if you want
to start to go through it. But you know, we'll start right off
at the top. You know, Steve Mnuchin is the chairman. And
that's, I think, how we found out about this, I believe you
were going through Steve Mnuchin stuff, right? Is that real
WW: VC firm, right, that he made after leaving the Trump
administration? Yeah, I was looking at their investments
because the the first investment they made is, is a company that
I've I've written about a few times. I did a whole series on
them actually, in early 2020. On called Cyber reason, and I
mentioned them on the interviews. Probably a few of
the ones I did last year, specifically because it the
reason I got interested in cyber reason was because they
essentially admit to being an Israeli intelligence front
company, and they were sent simulating with DHS and US
police departments and different intelligence agencies. The cyber
attack essentially conducted on US election elections like gets
the election canceled and martial law declared. And
obviously, because we're an election year that became a
renewed interest. But it I think it's very interesting that
Mnuchin leaves service in the US government and then goes and
invest right away in an Israeli front company. And then he's
also at the same time attempting to recruit the head of Mossad,
Yossi Cohen, to his, his new VC firm. And he's there with also
the Trump's ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, who was
like very admittedly, just as you know, immersed in the
politics of Israel as the United States in a way that's very
uncommon for ambassadors to be in was criticized as being more
and more interested, you know, more interested in in Israeli
political interest than advocating for US interests, I
guess, should be said, which is important, which isn't that
unusual, I guess, in terms of us is real politic or whatever, but
it is kind of, you know, ironic, considering the whole America
first mantra of the Trump administration. So Joseph
Dunford is another person on the Satellogic board, he was head of
the Joint Chiefs of Staff or, you know, the different branches
of the military. under the Trump administration. Of course,
that's when SpaceForce was made. And he was recruited to a many
Chin's VC firm, after the Trump administration as well. And they
are both involved with cybereason at the board level as
well. So they're simultaneously on the board of this Israeli
intelligence front company as they are with Satellogic.
MG: Yeah, the Trump administration is one of the
greatest examples of this private public, you know,
complete dissolving of the delineation between the two. I
think specifically with these two guys, it's it's incredible.
But, you know, Mnuchin was the, you know, obviously a one West
partner who was a huge profiteer in the 2008 crisis, when he's,
you know, leading the Treasury, he brings in Brian Brooks, who
was the former VP of Coinbase, to run the Office of the
Comptroller of the Currency, who was the first guy to put in a
law that says that banks can hold crypto assets and that
banks can participate in stable coin creation. Also another
great point, right, but on the last days of Trump's
administration, he pardoned Michael Milken, who, you know,
Craig Kogut was basically the the head legal advisor for
during that whole junk bond scandal. The reason why I bring
up the you know, this whole, you know, Trump administration stuff
with the stable coins and the Brian Brooke. Conversation is,
you know, as we get to our third member here on the board, you
know, it's our boy, Howie, Howard Lutnick, who is the
Chairman and CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, which is the group
that holds all of the US Treasuries for tether, which is
the largest stable coin provider and issuer in the world, which
has just under $110 billion worth of stable coins, and are
one of the biggest purchases purchasers of US Treasuries,
certainly over the last 18 months, I mean, just gobbling
them up. And the government literally needs people to buy
these things, to service their debt, to service their budget.
So you're like already beginning before we even like get into the
rest of them get into, you know, like a lot of stuff about
Satellogic. You know, you're just looking at the first three
people listed on the board. And you're already seeing this
crazy, you know, connection with the public sector in a very
important way, specifically with the Trump administration, which
again, we can connect to think who manages his money before
him. I mean, there's so many things you can look at here, but
like very directly, you know, some of the most important
players in the private public domain of, you know, private
capital creation, and stable coins and blockchain integration
with the public private sector are apparent here on this board
of a satellite company.
WW: So yeah, so why are they interested in a satellite
company? Right, you know, and I think green plus makes it pretty
clear that there's a big financial play to be had here.
It's not just about surveillance, and actually
something Satellogic says in its own marketing material, is that
historically, a lot of these satellites have been used by
militaries, intelligence agencies and governments. They
sell satellites as a service to commercial entities as well.
they market it to specifically banks, insurance companies, all
sorts of stuff, because they want to, as they say,
democratize surveillance, right. But that's not really like, I
mean, that's, I think, kind of a misuse of the word democratizing
the way most people think about the
MG: word democratizes never used appropriately. It's always used
as he I think that's an that's something that these schools do.
It's a total inversion of language. This banking the
unbanked thing, you know, we talked about it, I think the
first time we ever we ever talked on a pod and I mean, just
this idea of you know, it's really like kind of crypto
colonialism, you know, but it's done under this this altruistic.
You know, greenwash whitewash, whatever you want to say. And
these guys are doing it again, you know, their, their, their
line is observation is preservation. It's like,
preservation for what? For, you know, the people that profiteer
in and made billions and billions, if not trillions of
dollars on Yeah, you know, these these junk bonds exploding on
the 2008 mortgages exploding on the COVID stimulus policy. I
mean, we haven't even talked about it going public and can't
or running the SPAC for them, and JP Morgan being the Special
Advisor for Satellogic. I mean, there's just the goals are, are
all abound. But let's let's continue running through the there's
WW: a lot to say, but I don't I don't know if we need to spend
time on every board member. I think our first four are. But I
do want to say before we go any farther. So Satellogic has
teamed up with Palantir, they've put Palantir in space. Palantir
is Peter Thiel company, of course, him being one of the co
founders of PayPal, the other one being Elon Musk, which new
Purdue who, you know, runs SpaceX. And SpaceX is also
partnered with Satellogic. And we have this broader network,
which we're going to be talking about more in our next piece of
this debt from above series, you know, often referred to as the
Pay Pal mafia, but it's essentially a specific group of
Silicon Valley billionaires that openly work together. They're
pretty much an open Cabal, and they like, like the term mafia.
MG: They did a photo shoot. Elon Musk was famously not there. But
they literally did a photo shoot, I think for Forbes. I
might be wrong, maybe fortune. But they all got together. And
you know, it was like sopranos era, you know, and they all got
together and dressed up. Yeah, you know, Goodfellas style, just
totally. Just so ridiculous. Yeah, but really leaning into
it. Yeah, they like the mafia angle. It's just, it's
WW: absurd. Well, because they are that and yeah, and so these
particular guys are working with this other organization that we
mentioned a little bit in the first piece, and we'll be
talking about more than the second piece that's called
Endeavor. And Endeavor is basically this effort. It's sort
of like a startup incubator. And there's a lot of these in
Silicon Valley land, but this one isn't really based in
Silicon Valley. And it's much bigger than just Silicon Valley.
And it has a lot of World Economic Forum affiliations.
It's chaired by Edgar Bronfman Jr. and people that are familiar
with my work. Specifically, my book will know all about the
Bronfman family, so no need to dwell there, but also Reed
Hoffman, who is co founder of LinkedIn, a member of the Pay
Pal mafia and also the person in Silicon Valley with the closest
relationship of the mall to Jeffrey Epstein is one of the
key players here. And he is on on the board of Endeavor Global
with Edgar Bronfman Jr. But he's also very involved with these.
The Argentina branch of Endeavor, of which Satellogic is
part but a lot of these other entities that we'll be talking
about more are there too. And one of the big the early
earliest success story of Endeavor and creating a company
is Mercado Libre, which is essentially like the Amazon of
Latin America, in the same monopolistic sense of Amazon
today. That is exactly it's a very good analog to what Mercado
Libre has become, and it was created by this particular group
Endeavor, but the guy in charge right is Marcos Galperin, who's
become the richest man in Argentina as a result and he is
the person on Satellogic's board after Mnuchin Dunford and
Lutnick so you have this particular guy and why is he
important in the context of what of these other you know three
men that we've already talked about that are on the board? I'd
like to drill down on that for a second because Mercado Libre is
not just a marketplace it's essentially becoming a bank, a
digital bank and the main digital bank for people that are
being economically pillaged right now in places like
Argentina, but you know, also others but Argentina is probably
the one that's like most acute economically right now. And
people are being forced to not use the Argentinian peso because
it's, you know, so volatile and been so heavily devalued. And so
they're the biggest adopters in the world right now of stable
coins and other cryptocurrencies and you know, Mercado Libre
through Mercado Pago through its relationships with other groups
in the area, like or companies in the area that are the the
main infrastructure for this market there. Ripio Mercado
Bitcoin and Brazil, they're essentially running the lion's
share of the rails on which this parallel economy that's
intentionally being fed by, you know, the the heavy devaluation
of the Argentinian Peso and Javier malaise, quote unquote
economic shock therapy in the country being forced to onboard
to these systems and Argentina is essentially becoming the
economic beta test for a lot of the stuff that they want to roll
out. And in referring to some of those pillars that I set off in
the introduction, the idea of having commodities and energy as
currency. Yes, Argentina is essentially becoming ground zero
for that. And there's an effort to make stable coins that are
pegged to commodities, specifically Argentinian grain
exports, and that has already advanced considerably through a
company called Agra tokens backed by Visa. And you have a
significant amount now of farmers in Argentina, who are
not interacting with the peso at all. They're interacting with
these stable coins that they're trading over, you know, rails
that either run by, you know, funded by Visa or affiliated
with Mercado Pago or Mercado Libre in some capacity. So when
you take that combined with, you know, you have the tether,
custodian guy there, the Treasury guy and the guy that
literally ran the Treasury Department in the US on the same
board of the satellite company trying to impose a carbon mark
on a lot in Latin America. It's crazy stuff. Oh, yeah.
MG: 100% I think there's a lot to talk about there with Mercado
Libre, but also, you know, just, you know, you mentioned this
sort of commodity back stable coin play and kind of this, you
know, using grains and, you know, growth assets in the
literal sense things that you grow, again, maybe a lesser
important board member, but you do have Bradley Halverson, who
is the former group president of Caterpillar, which is one of the
biggest agriculture infrastructure, and machinists
companies in the world, also conveniently on the board, which
is, which is sort of interesting. But yeah, I think
Mercado Libre is, is really fascinating, because I think
especially you alluded to the PayPal Mafia, right. And I think
one of the things that people really forget about PayPal is
where it got its market share from and where it really
captured so much was through its, you know, collaboration
with eBay. And for eBay to work as the kind of marketplace that
it was being online. You know, you needed an ability to protect
buyers, from people that were selling fraudulent goods on
eBay, or that were, you know, you needed a strong consumer
protection for the buyer. And so eBay offered that in a way that
was kind of unprecedented, offer an online business, even more so
than a Visa or MasterCard, or an ACH or any sort of wire
transfer. So they combined Buyer Protection with instant
settlement. And that was sort of the, you know, the killer app
that, you know, allowed people to really take what, you know,
the huge lion's share of settlement was because of this
market. And so you really needed eBay to have PayPal take off
now, PayPal was far beyond, you know, just being eBays, you
know, settlement tool. But I think that's really important
and discussing, you know, the proliferation of PayPal was was
Pierre Omidyar and eBay and you know, a lot of these,
WW: you know, the Omidyar now owns PayPal. Exactly.
MG: Right. Fans get that. So we're seeing Mercado Libre sort
of arrive as not just the Amazon but also you know, has a bit of
that eBay vibe as well. So the, the decision of the market maker
of a Marcos Galperin that you know is has you know, billions
of you know, I'm not sure directly yet if Mercado Libre
has a billion users but you know certainly hundreds of millions
you know, throughout Latin America throughout Central and
South America and you know, more or less at the flip of a switch
you know, they can actualize you know really quickly right like
we saw Venmo which is a PayPal product now, integrate it
basically in the back end, Pay Pal stable coin. Now the you
know, the hundreds of millions of people that use Venmo and now
have access to a stable coin that's operated by Paxos because
of a flip of a switch of a you know, controlled group of people
now that the entire market has access to the stable coin they
now have access to Bitcoin Aetherium whatever, all the
other things. So, you know, there is sort of this there's a
need for a market to actualize these, you know, if they if
someone wants to circumnavigate the state's power to print
money, and and that's sort of seemingly what a lot of these
people now jumping, burnt jumping from the Burning ship
that is the US dollar system and the US government now buried in
over $33 trillion of debt you know they're jumping from the
burning ship the rats are leaving and swimming away you
know what where do they want to go next they want to go to you
know, basically you know state free money that uses some sort
of commodity backed thing which you know in this case you know,
is that kind of wheat grain real and assets and now they need to
market to to great to get velocity and liquidity for so
Mercado Libre plays a really interesting role. Again, they
haven't really done anything yet. They've integrated some
some blockchain stuff they've they've they've done some
messing around with stable coins, but nothing at a super
fast level.
WW: will sure but they're very intimately tied up with PayPal,
and PayPal has their stable coin right. And so I think it's
pretty clear that as Argentina, in particular as sort of like
this testbed for this stuff advances that way. And with
Mercado Libre through Mercado Pago being like one of the main
ways that people in Argentina interact with the crypto
ecosystem. I mean, you know, as the as the issues with the
Argentinian peso deepen, it's not going to get better under
Milei, the peso issue, they're going to onboard people on to
these other currencies, I think it's pretty clear that the
infrastructure for that, Tony now, that's what they plan to
you.
MG: Exactly, that's, that's the thing that, you know, and that
was a big part of the book that I wrote the Bitcoin dollar
that's about its controlling the on and the off ramps of the
infrastructure of a decentralized thing, then it
then it's, it kind of ceases to be, you know, very, very
decentralized or very useful as a decentralized thing. You know,
if you control all the on and off ramps of Bitcoin, to be
dollar denominated, which they basically have done and creating
no your customer AML you know, anti money laundering, you know,
kind of systems and all the exchanges that have any sort of
meaningful volume, you know, you create a system where, you know,
the controlling, you know, elites basically get to, you
know, kind of utilize Bitcoin, you know, to perpetuate the
dollar system, right. So Mercado Libre is now kind of propping up
as the market to basically, you know, bring blockchain and there
in these tokenized assets to the global south to South America.
So it plays an incredibly important part to actually
actualize all this stuff, you need users you need to market
because this these dollar denomination things, these
tokenized credits these like they don't work unless people
actually are there and have access to them and can use them.
So I think that there's it's not a it's not a surprise, it seems
so crazy to be like, why would a agriculture company machinists
guy from Caterpillar, a mark, eBay market guy, a treasury
holding Investment Company, saddle or a job board general?
And an SEC, or former Secretary of the Treasury? Like, why would
they all come together and form a company? I mean, it seems kind
of crazy. Until you actually look at the mechanisms they Oh,
wow, they these are all the essential pillars to create this
right? Well,
WW: to be fair, they didn't form Satellogic. They're on the board
and the people but the people that formed it, these are the
people they want on their board. And that's important when we
consider that the people that made Satellogic, Emiliano
Kargieman and what's his name Gerardo Richarte, I think
something like that CTO? Um, yeah, they previously had a
company called core security technologies before creating
Satellogic and that was a contractor to DHS to DARPA, you
know, intelligence in US intelligence and US military
agencies. They're based out of Argentina. But how much of an
Argentinian company are they really and Satellogic actually
relocated from South America to the United States in search of
US government contracts and to deepen their space X
partnership, specifically, with SpaceX, having been noted noted
in the Wall Street Journal and other places in recent months
for intent, you know, deepening its connections to US
intelligence. And it was already the main contractor for Space
Force, which is part of the military, but Space Force is
also an intelligence agency. And every intelligence agency uses
Palantir, from Peter Thiel, and Palantir, as I've written about
before, was created to be the privatized version of the DARPA
program total information awareness, which is literally
about surveilling the entire planet, from space to like, the
smallest level technologically possible. And using running that
through things like predictive analytics to predict events
before they happen, and polluting predict pandemics
before they happen. And a lot of that rhetoric was around during
COVID. And of course, Palantir is managing all of the COVID
data for HHS and the United Kingdom. But we've also heard it
for terror attacks. So just the ostensible reason that total
information awareness was launched. And then when it was
about to be shut down, they tried to revive it by renaming
it terrorist Information Awareness. But that's also what
you know, Palantir has gotten into and they do predictive
policing, predicting crime before it happens at the US
level and all of that. And actually, during the Trump
administration, there was a big effort to prevent mass shootings
before they happen by predicted doing predictive analytics on
American social media posts. That was the Trump
administration's idea. And Bill Barr, Attorney General under
Trump legalized pre crime. So we have to keep in mind here that
both sides of the political divide are creating this system
and backing this system, and carbon markets ESG it's not just
a quote unquote, Democrat thing, all these guys are getting in
it. And they're using either side of the political divide,
whichever one will stick to get the system in place, you know
that the party is irrelevant, they all are taking you to the
same place at the end of the day. And I think that's
something that's um, some of my recent reporting on the effort
to create the biometric smart wall on the US Mexico border.
That's been like the Democrats response to the quote unquote,
building the wall under Trump and now they're all agreeing,
including Trump himself, that that's the wall that needs to
happen. But it's the exact same thing that's being implemented
essentially in lockstep all over the world as far as biometric
Entry Exit programs go and it's part of the Sustainable
Development Goals un plan, which was written by bankers,
essentially. Yeah, so I mean, it's
MG: the same
WW: theory. Exactly.
MG: Nailed it. Yeah, it's the same way that the red and blue
paradigm is, is pretty useless. false dichotomy. The private
public is kind of becoming this false dichotomy as well. And I
think you can see that very clearly in the core security
technology. You know, yes, they were NSA, Homeland Security,
NASA, DARPA, you know, clients, but they were also apple and
like Cisco and Lockheed Martin. And then I think also to, you
know, just to get just to connect this point a little bit
more. They were also an Endeavor, and Trump, an
entrepreneur from the Endeavour Foundation. And which, you know,
there were some interesting connections there with Eduardo
el Steen, who was the president of Endeavor, Argentina, who is a
very ghoulish man, maybe we can get into later. But then also
cargo women in between core securities and Satellogic also
did a venture called a konkola ventures with credit Kogut.
Again, the Milken Drexel guy who did Pegasus Pegasus capital, in
their venture ended up being a member of the Special Projects
group at the World Bank, again to kind of get into this private
public bullshit. And then COVID PEGASE capital is a huge founder
of CC 35. funder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah. Huge funder
of CC 35. Yeah, I
WW: mean, Craig CO gets whole thing is that he's rebranded as
a green finance guy. And a lot of these guys have done that
too, after they've left their careers and criminal banking.
Mark Carney being a really good example. I mean, he's like the
UN Envoy for Climate Finance. The fact that the UN would pick
someone like Mark Carney to do climate finance is like should
be the biggest indicator of the world that the UN is the
enabling environment for global grift that is what it has
become. Mark Carney is the guy that like covered up drugs, the
laundering of money and the bill like a millions and millions of
dollars for drug cartels that HSBC was doing he like helped
cover that up, has just been a point man for the banking
cartel, his entire career, head of the Central Bank of England
of Canada. And just one of the worst, for sure. And he's the
guy that's, you know, authoring and helping plan all of the UN's
climate finance objectives, which we're told that those
climate finance objectives and programs and whatever that he
and his affiliate Mike Bloomberg, the billionaire are
making under the auspices of the UN, this is the only way to save
the planet. Because using any other sort of, you know,
dialectics no one's going to buy in or onboard to this thing at
all. We literally have to be told that it's like our
salvation from complete doom and destruction, to start
participating in their market that they have designed to be
rigged in their favor, of course, but framed as saving the
planet but really it's allowing them to, you know, gobble up the
planet under the guise of saving it. Yeah,
MG: this this is such a good I think that the the hiding behind
privates After a public sector like that, that that horseshit
here at one of the things that's so important about why
Satellogic was set up why Palantir is set up, is because
when you have strictly public sector, businesses, public
sector funded businesses, which they are, you know, so many of
these things aren't really the public sector is the exact same,
it is just corporations, they just there's different
restrictions on what they can do, and how they can, you know,
who they can actually work with whose data they can sell. So it
actually makes a lot of sense, when you look at the
restrictions of, you know, I don't know the Bill of Rights,
what that actually restricts government's from doing, you
know, it makes sense that, you know, these ghouls would
basically move into the private sector and why Satellogic would
move into the private sector, featuring all of these former
public sector, you know, veterans, that's quite literally
veterans in Dunford case. And it's because, you know, in the
same way that we've talked about Central Bank, digital
currencies, sort of being this red herring, because the public
sector has a lot more restrictions on what you can do
with user data, who you can blacklist the private sector,
you know, there's there's very little that the private sector
has restrictions on, but what they can do with customer data,
who they can observe, and all this, you know, and that's why
we're seeing a push for private sector stable coins, rather than
public sector issued, you know, dollar tokens, because it just
gives them so much more, you know, ability to do things and
that's, you know, we were seeing that in in Satellogic. And
seeing that wisdom of their partners, there's the other, you
know, satellite company or kind of laser satellite
infrastructure builder, it's also Endeavor funded fancy
enough, but that sky loom that, you know, has worked with, you
know, building commercial and military satellites for the
Pentagon space development agency. So andeavor is funded
them Satellogic is working with them. Satellogic is working with
Amazon Web Services, which, you know, to just stream basically
the 50 gigabytes of data that the satellites need, you know,
back to Earth. You know, in Amazon Web Services, of course,
is one of the CIA contractors along with like Oracle, and, you
know, a couple, a couple other groups that have gotten these
huge these huge, you know, public sector contracts, but
their private
WW: Oracle is the CIA.
MG: Right? Well, the other so was Palantir. So we're all sure
yes, right.
WW: Yeah. But they're framed as not being that but exactly.
Oracle was project, Oracle, the CIA, and Larry Ellison went from
that to making Oracle, the company that is a contractor for
the CIA, and doing the same type of stuff that project oracle at
the CIA was set up to do, right. And then, you know, Google has
early CIA funding in the beginning and Palantir, etc,
etc. And we see them as these private companies. And there's
been this whole rhetoric that's been put out there in recent
years, specifically, when it comes to issues of like social
media censorship, to treat these private companies is, you know,
entirely separate from the government, which is not the
case at all. And they've been it's been very useful to them
for a variety of reasons of trying to like rein them in for
certain things, they get in trouble. They go before
Congress, people say, Oh, the public sector needs to do more,
but our hands are tied their private companies will really,
you know, again, the public private division at this point
is completely meaningless. And they use it as another divide
and conquer, you know, tool, get people mad at the public sector
say the private sector is the answer. Get people mad at the
private sector, see, say the public sector is the answer and
ping pong people around just like the ping pong people,
between Democrat and Republican. I mean, they're fundamentally
related, right? Because Democrats are the ones that are
like, stronger public sector and the Republicans are stronger
private sector, it's all part of the same ping pong. You know,
having people distracted from what's actually going on all of
the time, but essentially, the public and private is fused. If
there's a unit party, I guess you could say there's a unit
economy. I don't know.
MG: Wow,
WW: right. You know,
MG: that's a good phrase. I haven't heard that one before.
And that's nice.
WW: Well, I don't know, it's the same kind of idea, right? If
it's one political party, the public and private sector, it's
one sector
MG: totally and that same with the you know, hey, let's take it
one step further. It's same with the multipolarity angle right? I
mean, this idea that you know, that there's these you know,
competing huge economies you know, that that have these
polls, they in Russia and China and the West and, or, you know,
you know, Brazil you know, it's it's
WW: there has to be the illusion of competition, right? Like,
that's why they need it to look like like with digital IDs and
digital wallets and whatever they need to look like there's
all these different vendors competing for your business,
right? But really, it's all the same digital ID digital wallet,
slavery system, and they need to make it look like nation states.
are competing but they all agree about the sustainable
development goals written by bankers or COVID. Policy
financial paradigm? Well, exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's all
part of the same thing. Fundamentally, there's these
global policy pushes on which every nation agrees, not unlike
how both political parties in the US agree, essentially the
same things on foreign wars and Israel and tat, you know,
certain things about taxes. And, you know, I mean, the, the
actual differences are relatively meaningless, and
largely based in the in the culture war, right. Yeah. And
so, yeah, and so, to have it go, you know, beyond that, I mean,
they want to, they're entertaining us, essentially,
they're distracting us from what they're actually building, and
what they're actually constructing. And they're hiding
behind the guise of this great power competition at various
levels. And also, behind this veil of altruism. And I think
that's particularly interesting in the context of the PayPal
Mafia, and also, you know, the crypto space. So like when FTX
collapse, a lot of people, including myself, looked at Sam
bank, Ben freedom, his involvement with so called
Effective Altruism. And that's sort of the philosophical veneer
that a lot of these Silicon Valley billionaires hide behind.
But it's really a veneer. It's not really about altruism, in
any sort of actual sense. It's, it's sort of like an elitism
that's framed as altruism. And, you know, a lot of the stuff
coming out of the UN is also framed in altruism, altruistic
terms, we're doing this for the good of the planet, we're, you
know, in doing this to save the planet, and we're doing this for
the poor, but they beta test all these control systems on the
poorest and the most vulnerable and have done so repeatedly. And
help systematize their this disenfranchise them being
disenfranchised by powerful private interests that are
funding the un un is not a public sector thing. It is a
public private thing. And it is being run by people like Mark
Carney and Michael Bloomberg right now. And those people are
not do not care about the underprivileged and the poor. I
mean, it's just absurd to think that they
MG: weren't. It's like, it's like, we got to we got to bank
the unbanked. It's like, well, who didn't bank them in the
first place? You know,
WW: like, now that we have this global slavery system, we want
to forcibly include everyone in let's include the unbanked Yeah,
MG: you're welcome now, like, please join us now that we need
a place to shove $34 trillion of debt now that we need the whole
world? Yeah, yeah. It's like, join us like, now we'll let you
in. Now's the appropriate time. I mean, it's just, it's quite a
man. It's crazy. And I think also to, you know, there's a
reason why, you know, again, there's no coincidences, none of
these things are mistake, that's why we're seeing this, this, you
know, push for, for figures who are very much so controlled and
corrupted private sector goblins. But you know, seeing a
Trump seeing a Milei you know, there's a Bolsonaro seeing these
figures come that are pushing, you know, this anti state, anti
Deep State, maybe there's an extreme sense of patriotism
still, or something like that, but the actual rhetoric is, you
know, hey, you know, yeah, like the bushes and the Clintons let
you down, Obama let you down. Here's Trump, you know, to fix
everything and it's just like he's as corrupted as any of
these other people he's as involved in in all of these
secret you know, ghoulish things as any of them affiliated with
Epstein, you know, through and through, much like the PayPal
Mafia, Ilan to Hoffman. You know, and now we're seeing this
Milei coming out who's literally you know, campaigned on you
know, getting rid of the central bank and bringing in outside
financial interest to dollarized Argentina and it's being done as
this you know, altruistic angle but it's like he's selling out
the country he's taking the lithium deposits selling them to
Israel. I mean, it's, he's he's a private sector goblin. And,
and people are cheering it on as he's literally cutting up the
country with a chainsaw and selling it. So now that there's
this useful phase shift towards, you know, hey, like the
government lost your trust. The CIA is bad, and the central bank
is bad, but don't blame Palantir don't blame Pay Pal. And, you
know, don't don't blame this the private sector banks that
control the Fed. No, no, no, no, no. afuera the central bank. But
let but let the rest of us run and dollarized the global south
under the dialectic of altruism. Um, so we're like, there's a
reason why these tick tock creatures and social media you
know, presidents are coming out Not that generate this consent,
manufacture this consent, you know, for this anti public
sector, you know, rhetoric like right at this at this important
time as you know, Blockchain is basically coming into fruition
and being accepted and integrated by both the private
sector and the public sector that these private sector
goblins running control like a BlackRock. So like we're seeing
a new enabling environment present itself. And it's really
important to kind of take a look at that and understand you know,
why now, why is there? Why are we getting figures promoted in
platform? Why is Milei speaking at Davos about how much all
these people suck? But capitalism is the answer,
because they want capitalism This is how they actually
complete the coup, is to actually circumnavigate the
central bank and to circumnavigate the public sector
restrictions on what the private sector can do. This is why they
had an NPR is now saying, you know, the, the biggest thing in
the way of misinformation is the First Amendment. You know, it's
it's totally insane, where we're going with rhetoric, and people
are pushing the Overton window so far the other direction, that
by the time I think the pendulum swings back, like we might be so
far gone. And people are really just cheering for this this
dissolving of, again, I don't like the state, I hate the
state. But I also understand who runs the state and who controls
it. And it's these private sector people that, you know,
that that that push all the buttons here, and I don't want
them to run things. That's not it. Let's meet the new boss
literally same as the old boss. And they're creating
surveillance networks, blockchains dollar tokens and
real world asset commodities. On this new enabling environment,
that's blockchain. It's very concerning.
WW: Yeah. So let me talk about there's a couple things I want
to bring up. I want to bring up Bukele for a second. Oh, sure. I
want to bring up Ron DeSantis. Also, well, I guess we'll start
with him. So Ron DeSantis was one of these guys not unlike
Trump that like went around very publicly saying like, No cbdc,
because it's a threat to human freedom and whatever. But in
Florida, he's become, he's forcing the adoption of the
Florida smart ID, which is a digital ID product made by
sales, which is like the flagship World Economic Forum,
strategic partner for digital ID development. I mean, it's just
insane. So yeah, so you're gonna have the digital ID, I guess
it's going to be you know, framed as freedom maybe I don't
really know how DeSantis is going to do that. But he's one
of those political creatures that framed himself in sort of
this new mode of, you know, I'm Liberty minded. I'm coming
against the standing against the tyrannical state and the
tyrannical plans, you know, that was a big he was built up in
that way because of his COVID stance to a significant degree,
and then making this statement on CBDCs. But here he is
implementing digital ID in Florida. And a lot of states
have gone quite far ahead on digital ID. And in the case of
El Salvador, you have them being specifically the mayor of San
Salvador, which is the capital which Mikayla used to be mayor
of before he became president of the current Mayor of San
Salvador, Mario deuteron, is about to be head of CC 35, one
of the main green plus entities, he's vice president for Central
America of it now. And it has been, you know, a big promoter
and adopter of the specific stuff and is also overseeing the
installation of these like biometric video surveillance
systems all over southern San Salvador, that are tied up with
this Israeli tech oligarch figure who has an Israeli
intelligence background, who happens to be a very close
friend of Nayib Bukele. So it's very interesting that someone so
closely affiliated with Bukele would be involved in this carbon
market style stuff. And the climate integration of the
Americas economically integrating the Americas through
a carbon market and leading the organization that literally has
that as its mission, and not being rebuked by him unless
Bukele's down for that stuff, too. I mean, it just seems a bit
weird. But again, I think, you know, some of the role of Bukele
here, you know, regardless of what you think about them, there
are some troubling things that have happened there in the sense
that a lot of glorification of the military, that usually does
not end well. And of course, El Salvador is a country that for a
long time has had a relatively close relationship with the US
military, and a lot of major traumatic, violent history,
largely caused by the influence of the CIA in there and like the
creation of US intelligence back that squads and stuff not unlike
what happened in other countries in Central America. can let same
period of time. So a lot going on there that to be wary about,
for sure. And also, I think, you know, I didn't really know a lot
about how El Salvador had implemented its whole approach
to Bitcoin until we started sort of researching a bit for this
piece, but it seems like a lot of it is running on the rails of
our grands, not so much as Bitcoin and alder. And as we
note in the piece, basically, the person that introduced
Michael Milken to cryptocurrency is, is the person that runs out
around right now Stacy Ward and who used to be one of the main
Latin American debt vultures for JP Morgan. So is that the kind
of you know, I don't know, it seems like there's a kind of if
that's the case, you know, the things I lay down, you know, it
seems like there's definitely been a extreme degree of
romanticizing this particular figure, and I think we should
ask why that might be in
MG: the connections with I mean, specifically, I know you got
more to go here. But I mean, you know, just recently they had
Howie Lutnick, of Satellogic, of Cantor Fitzgerald hold the
Tether bonds in the office in El Salvador taking pictures with
the head of Tether the banking guys for Tether and, and, you
know, Bukele at with Howie and, you know, that's that's kind of
concerning to me, in a lot of ways. And, you know, I
understand I think El Salvador has been a very important thing
for a lot of you know, for you know, Bitcoin right as this is
kind of the first country the shot around the world, the first
people to legalize it, make it legal tender. Well, they're a
dollarized country, one of 66 dollarized countries. And, you
know, one of the first things that they did immediately is
build the 40,000 person prison. And there's a lot of just very
backwards, you know, Bitcoin is this anti state, you know,
freedom, focus technology, anti dollar, you know, getting out of
the dollar homogeny it's like, well, then why are so many of
the people surrounding you know, the dollar, the Bitcoin isation
of El Salvador, major players in the dollar system, and the
prison system, it's very concerning, and I think that it
deserves a lot more discussion. And I think that this is
something that there's a big issue in the Bitcoin space I can
speak of specifically is that there's a lot of tether funded,
you know, discourse in media, and a lot of the, you know,
major figureheads in the Bitcoin space are literally paid by
tether or heavily involved, you know, investors in tether, and
it does a great disservice to actually be able to discuss some
of these things. And, you know, maybe arguably instead of, like,
I'm gonna get killed for this, but you know, maybe rather than
the Bitcoin zation of El Salvador, it was really the
weatherization and the dollarization of El Salvador.
And I think that's worth having a discussion about, especially
when you look at some of the private companies that went in
there like a strike, you know, in there, like the way that they
integrated it right off the bat, it was with tether when they
opened up in Argentina, you couldn't even buy bitcoin, it
was just tether. So there's a lot of things to discuss there
with Bukele specifically that are very concerning, that I feel
like Bitcoiners really aren't allowed to talk about? Well,
WW: I feel like there's a model. I mean, there's an obvious
effort throughout lots of several Latin American countries
to replicate what's being referred to as the Bukele model.
Specifically, as it comes to combating crime. I do not want
to say that there was not an insane gang violence climates,
you know, Salvador, it was very bad. And there's an obvious
reason why people in El Salvador like Bukele so much just because
he ended that totally. But the problem is those gangs deeply
connected to US intelligence, US intelligence want there to be a
phase shift. And El Salvador, obviously a very traumatized
population, whoever ends that wave of crime and violence that
has terrorized them for decades, they are going to love that
person. Sure, regardless of who it is, and how they do it. 100%
MG: And that's something interesting. You talk to people
in South America and they love Bukele across the board, Central
America, South America, and they love tether. You know, it's very
interesting, and how much of that is because of controls?
Well, they
WW: stand as tools of freedom. Exactly. Well, right. And
MG: then you have, you know, you know, private sector sponsored
people like from Peter Thiel and Omidyar 23 And me, you know,
like, you know, some people at the HRF coming out and preaching
stable coins as an altruistic, you know, means, you know, and
instead, you know, really it's, you know, they've onboard to the
FBI, the Secret Service, and they're perpetuating the Ponzi
scheme that is the US Treasury market across the world. Well,
WW: the head of tether also said that the that hit their goal is
to expand dollar hegemony. He literally said that. Yep. Yeah,
yeah. And that they want to work with the US government to do
that and onboarded intelligence Just totally do its platform
exact and now the currency like an Argentina is being totally
wrecked. I mean, it already was wrapped, but it's being racked
up even more like even more devalued under Milei. And now
people are being forced to either do world coin and give up
their Iris for some world coins, right, which is another Reid
Hoffman back thing. Or they're going to tether or they're going
to circle USDC. So, you know, who's really been a feeding
fitting there is that freedom and what worries about me so
with this Bukele model, you know, I can see it much easier
to manufacture consent for that for that model and countries
that are plagued by crime, right. So like Ecuador, for
example, is attempting to replicate the Bukele model, but
Milei saying, Oh, we're going to start building mega prisons. Us
too. You know, the issue in Argentina is not a massive
crime, crippling everything issue like it has been in recent
Ecuador, like historically and El Salvador, they have a poverty
problem. And it worries me when you have a guy whose whole
cabinet is full of bankers from like JP Morgan, and stuff, you
know, running most of a significant part of the
government. And then you you're inviting Larry Fink in who? John
Titus gave him the nickname totalitarian, Larry, for you,
Larry Fink statement that the market markets love
authoritarian dictatorships. Totally. Yeah. And so you have,
why are you building mega prisons when your problem isn't
that your country is overrun by crime? You're overrun by people,
you know, more than two thirds of the population now, like
under the poverty line, right? You're building prisons for poor
people. Yeah.
MG: And you're creating an environment for them to be
forced to, you know, go to illicit means to be able to make
ends meet, which then forces them to become criminals. You're
creating situations either that
WW: or you force them to onboard onto Mercado Libre is coming
digital ID system so that they can access Mercado right pago
and use the state defined crypto rails, you know,
MG: it's, it's concerning. And that's what I think is very
concerning about the green plus DC 35 element, you know, is that
there's so many regional and municipalities that are already
connected with this. And it seems like there's not a lot of
awareness about who these players are, you know, and
again, some of it is speculation on our part, but some of it is
not, I mean, some of these things, you know, for whatever
reason, these people love to get up there and talk. I mean, as
you said, you know, to how we let Nick, you know, he went out
at the chain analysis conference, you know, a week and
a half ago, which is hilarious, which is the, you know, private
sector intelligence agency for for blockchain analysis. On he
came out and said, Yeah, I want to extend dollar hedge fund, you
know, using stable coins and how it's essential for the dollar to
continue and yada yada these people say these things out
loud. So there yes, there's some speculation on our part, to some
degree, but but really, it's we're using their words, right.
I mean, this is this is open source intelligence source
stuff, right? We're using everything in the public sector,
or just in the public domain, rather. And, you know, there's
been a lot of comments. I mean, we haven't even really gotten
into the RFK component, the rootstock component, but this
Diego guy, you know, basically came out and said, you know,
Bitcoiners need to basically strip their, you know, anti
state ethos and the revolutionary ethos, and embrace
the state. And we've seen that being pushed from from every
angle, you know, kind of in this in this new adoption, you know,
of Bitcoin by Larry Fink by, you know, these huge, huge players.
You know, there's there's a, there's a manufactured and
constructed effort to dissolve the revolutionary ethos that was
so useful for them in the beginning of perpetuating
blockchain that now it's no longer useful for them. And now,
it's this this mechanism, and this digital ledger. You know,
that that, that is so helpful for them for, you know, for
actualizing being the enabling environment, it's no longer very
useful to perpetuate, you know, this idea of it as a currency
this idea of it as the freedom you know, censorship resistant
money. Yeah.
WW: Technology for asset storage, exactly what it is
right and against what Larry Fink says, That's what Jeffrey
Epstein said, Exactly.
MG: It's very interesting. And obviously, Epstein is super
connected with a lot of, you know, the PayPal Mafia, and, you
know, and and the Brahmins and you know, the people that are,
you know, running Endeavor, the people that are connected to all
these things, there's there's beginning to be kind of this
coalition forming. You know, we've joked that you know, you
know that our books are Basically merging into this
horrible thing here of one nation under Bitcoin dollar. And
this is sort of it's kind of happening. But again, I think
it's really important to like, look at what they're actually
saying. And you look at these quotes and the things that they
say, I mean, they're, they're basically calling for, you know,
to drop the revolutionary aspect of this and to lean into this
capitalism is freedom. And I'm not an anti capitalist, I think
free market service are important, but like, not when
they're, they're not free markets, not when they're
markets and infrastructures in the rails are crony capitalism,
right? It's crony capitalist. Yeah, sure, you could say the
junk bond scandal of the 80s. And the saving and loan scandal
is free market capitalism, but like, who gets hurt, like the
taxpayers that have no idea, you could say that the 2008 crisis,
which Epstein is connected, and he was connected in the savings
and loan scandal to and you could say that, you know, that's
free market capitalism, baby like, what's wrong with that?
Isn't that what we want? Well, no, not necessarily, you know,
not when you create a new dissolve regulation, like a
glass steagall, that, you know, prevents, you know, taxpayer
backed financial institutions from speculating and certain
derivative markets that you know, they weren't really
supposed to be able to with with taxpayer backed funds, and now
that they are now they're too big to fail we're merging city
you know, city is becoming this way too big to fail entity JP
Morgan, way too big to fail Bank of America way too big to fail,
we have to bail them all out. You know, the capitalism has has
has run amiss with with goblins and ghouls and you know, it's
not it's not this just like perfect, you know, ideology that
has no issues. And I'm not anti capitalist. I'm not, you know,
any of these things that people are going to label me as After
saying this, but it's like, I think that there is a reason why
we are getting fed public figures like a Trump like a
Milei while we're seeing people in the UFC, doing interviews
with Joe Rogan saying, I fucking love private property, read the
Austrian School of Economics, it's just it's like, it's such a
clown show. And if you can't, like kind of see the dialectics
that's happening here, I'm not saying don't read, you know,
high IQ, like, do it. It's great. There's some great stuff
in there. But but it's useful for them right now. It's a
useful dialectic to push as they pillage the public with the
remains of the public sector.
WW: I do also want to say that a lot of Latin American military
dictatorships in the 1980s acted like they were really into
Austrian economics and like, held up those ideals. But if you
look at so, you know, obviously, I live in Chile, you know, a
decent amount about Pinochet. So like Pinochet had, like the
Chicago Boys as they're known come in, like the students of
Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago come in,
and basically design Chile economy. And people say that's
why Chile has been so stable. But really, Chile has been like
an economic testbed for a lot of stuff and testbeds for other
things, for a very long time. And it's been useful for them to
have that one like state one stable country, in South
America. For a variety of reasons, probably a big part of
it being like all the lithium and copper is here. But I
digress. But anyway, if you look at a lot of the stuff that's
come out in the years, since you know, Pinochet was like a very
corrupt guy had like all these insane bank accounts and weird
shadow banking stuff was going on with the Chilean state, like
they were obviously like, masking what they were doing as
being like, oh, yeah, we're all you know, it's the free market
this and free market that but it was like, definitely an insane
amount of crony capitalism was happening. And there was like a
crystallization of the oligarch class that helped finance and
create the coup in 1973. Yeah, you have people like Augustine,
Edwards being like one of the pointment for the coup with the
CIA. And he's the guy that you know, ran Banco de Chile, and
like one of the biggest banks here. And a lot of other one of
the biggest newspaper, I mean, he's an oligarch family, and the
other oligarch families, besides the Edwards were, like benefited
from that period are still very much in control of, of Chile and
had been for a long time. So it's not like that's free the
free market when you have like an unelected oligarchy that
still essentially controls everything. And if there's been
this model that's been enacted all over the world. I mean, we
also solidly under Larry Summers, and Robert Rubin, with
Russia, right. And the after the collapse of the Soviet Union,
there was the king making the selection, essentially, of all
these different oligarchs that were put in charge of key
industries during the quote unquote, raping of Russia and
the pillaging of its economic resources under like Boris
Yeltsin, and you know, even beyond that to an extent but it
was definitely most acute, you know, during that initial
period, and that was framed As the free market is here to
Russia, but was that the free market? Absolutely not. That was
like Larry Summers, crony capitalism madness on steroids
with all these Harvard economist claiming that they're, you know,
gonna bring the free market to the former Soviet Union and yada
yada yada and they make this insane oligarch class that now
is their like sworn enemy, the Russian oligarchs, they yell on
like Rachel Maddow Show and stuff you literally created
that. Yes. Yeah.
MG: And and what did those same players do? You know, at the,
you know, again, everyone talks about, you know, Brazil and
Argentina and El Salvador, but like, I mean, Mexico, you know,
what happened in NAFTA? You know, under the similar regimes,
you know, why is Epstein visiting the Clinton White
House, you know, dozen plus times, you know, in the early
mid 90s And then why are we seeing kind of this you know,
George Soros seein you know, this this Joe Lewis guy very
connected with Argentina and with tether, he does the banking
for tether with Deltec. You know, he rode the the Mexican
peso all the way down and made billions of dollars. You know,
you know, and then, you know, we see Robert Rubin jumped ship
from the public sector to to city, which basically, you know,
privatized or took over rather the biggest bank in Mexico,
after NAFTA basically, did you know, a similar sort of, you
know, altruistic framing, hey, let's trade with with the US,
let's do this agricultural trade all this stuff. And we ended up
kind of just just destroying the peso in the process. And these
guys make billions of dollars off at these guys get huge,
cushy, cushy jobs, they jump back and forth between the
private and public sector. It's Larry Summers, it's Robert
Rubin. It's city. It's Joe Lewis. You know, it's it's,
it's, it's absurd. But it's done under this guise of kind of
like, Oh, we're opening up the, you know, the market, you know,
we're opening up, you know, these industries, we're bringing
the dollar there, you know, same thing, the same players, you
know, seven, eight years before, you know, doing the Plaza
Accord, which was like kind of the first ever like noticeable,
coordinated central banking, their meeting in the, you know,
Roy Cohn's old hideout at the Plaza Hotel, and they're
bringing, you know, the heads of the central banks of the gees of
the G five at the time, and agreeing to devalue the dollar
50%, which is seen as this, oh, like, that's so great that the
dollar is so strong, and now we're gonna help all these other
countries. But no, I mean, they opened up all these other
countries for us to get in there like Japan, you know, into into
open up the country that's industrializing. So there's all
these like dialectics that are done in the private public
sector, people come in, like a Greenspan, right. He's working
at JP Morgan, he writes this pamphlet about rethinking Glass
Steagall, which is the regulation put in in 33, by FDR
that doesn't, you know, let you know, banks basically be
insurance brokers and do certain derivative trades, and be in
certain markets and mortgages, you know, interstate lines. And
so he comes in, he writes a pamphlet, and says, you know,
let's rethink Glass Steagall, Let's dissolve it. And then of
course, comes in, you know, and is working at the Fed. And, you
know, they they dissolve Glass Steagall in the late 90s. And we
have 2008 basically happen immediately after that. So it's
like, whenever it's useful for them to push the free market and
get their people in place there. It's useful for them whenever
it's not. It's not but I think right now, we're at like, the
biggest time, bigger than Glass Steagall,
WW: once again, so like the Treasury Secretary, right. So it
was Robert Rubin, Goldman Sachs. And then Rubin gives it to his
boy, his Deputy, Larry, and then who becomes head of the
Treasury. What in the leap from you know, to win? Oh, it's
happening. It's Henry parle. Paulson. Right. Goldman Sachs,
right. I forget where Tim Geithner was before but he was
under he worked for summers on Rubin and then went to Warburg
Pincus and then Mnuchin isn't that his dad, like basically run
Goldman Sachs? Right?
MG: I, I'm not sure, but very possible.
WW: But anyway, I mean, they're all from the same criminal
banks, the people that run treasury and they like, it's an
insane revolving door, and like, people just forget that all the
time. You know, they're like, Oh, that guy was such a bad
treasury secretary. Whoa, but, you know, the banking was front
running is fine. You know, it's private sector. Yeah. Yep. It
doesn't really work like that, guys, you know?
MG: And now we're having the digitalization of it. I mean,
Things move so much faster. The you know, people love to push a
lot of these you know, questionably you know, these
these figures in Bitcoin right like to push Bitcoin as sort of
like digital real estate and not digital currency, like the
sailors of the world. Epstein said the exact same thing,
basically, and just kind of one known interview about Bitcoin.
But you know, there's sort of a land grab in the digital world,
and things move so fast there. And this idea of, you know, the
thing that is interesting about Bitcoin, is that it's basically
digital credit, whereas everything else is digital debt,
the dollar is a debt instrument, the way that it's structured,
it's to settle debts. And Bitcoin really, it has a debt
element to it in the real world that uses energy, like you
inquire a debt to mine Bitcoin. And then if you when it's issued
to you, in that debt that you incurred from a digital law, or
from an electrical loss, an energy loss, you know, it gets
transmuted into a token, that's, you know, credit, that's digital
credit, it's the only digital credit that exists. Everything
else is digital debt. And so it's very interesting that, you
know, at the time, and again, I'm not trying to say too much
about where I think that Bitcoin came from. But I do think it's
interesting that Bitcoin basically popped up, you know,
the white papers released Halloween 2008, you know, at the
peak of kind of the US, you know, beginning to realize that
the the money is getting away from ourselves, and we're going
to have to service this debt. In this way. That's very
unsustainable. And, you know, we talked about this a bit last
time I was on here, but, you know, the, the Bitcoins, you
know, basically growth in perpetuation with the growth of
the US debt is very interesting to me, and I don't think it's a
coincidence. And again, Bitcoin is whatever you think it is, I
mean, it is that thing, it's a very important technological
tool that can empower a government as much as it can
empower an individual. And I think we're seeing it, you know,
in power, the US government and the US dollar market. And so as
digital debt is created, via dollar tokens, you know, digital
credit is being appreciated, and we're seeing rapid increases in
bitcoins growth, you know, since the ETF, you know, I think
bitcoins up, like 50%, or something, just this year, the
same people in 2008, that saw the debt, CDO explosion, you
know, these very guys are now actually very heavily connected
to Bitcoin. You'd like Larry Summers being on the board. We
haven't even talked about him yet. But of Zappo of winces qsrs
is company alongside D Hawk, and a visa and John Reed of Citi.
You know, the three of them were the founding board of Zappo,
which is an Endeavor connected, you know, South American, you
know, the Fort Knox of, of Bitcoin, which directly is
saying that it's connecting us dollars to stable coins to
Bitcoin. And that's what it's doing the same players are
basically using Bitcoin, as this demand and elastic digital
credit to print eventually, as Walter Hastert said to me, who's
the head of strategy at Paxos, which is, you know, a PayPal
affiliate who runs their their stable coin, that, you know,
they're planning on there being trillions of dollars of highly
regulated stable coins coming? What does that mean? That means
trillions of dollars of debt was printed. In order to create
these dollar stable coins, you need digital debt. So Treasuries
are happening to create these digital tokens. Where does that
go? It can flow into bitcoin basically be this heatsink. So
rather than the economic hegemony leave the US and go to
a China go to a BRICS sort of situation, or just, you know,
make gold much more valuable. Instead, it will basically flow
into Bitcoin and be used as this debt heatsink, you know, to be
to expand digital credit. So that's kind of where we're at. I
mean, we're seeing, you know, all of these systems pop up, or
how do you actually facilitate that? How do you quantitatively
ease in a super high debt environment, you have to get
really creative and you have to basically create these new debt
instruments like green finance. I believe you were the one that
showed me I'll let you spill the album. But what was the new VP
of RF ks campaign? What was her thesis at Stanford?
WW: Well, I don't know if it was her thesis. I think it was after
she graduated. But yeah, Nicole Shanahan, who's RFK juniors vice
president basically wrote some paper about quantitative easing
through the use of carbon markets or something like that.
It's been a while since I've read it Yeah, but
MG: but but basically This idea of how do we create more ability
to create digital dollars to create more dollars and spread
this debt around, we have to place it somewhere, you know,
you have to put it on the balance sheet somewhere. And so
they are literally creating a green financial system that uses
blockchain that is upheld by satellites, that is upheld by
regional agreements between, you know, 35 capital cities in
Central and South America to create a carbon credit trading,
you know, system complete with one of the biggest markets in
South America Mercado Libre to basically shove as much debt as
possible, which is incredible to think of more dollar denominated
debt being shoved on the global South, because that's where it
all is through IMF loans, World Bank loans, but more and more
and more and more, you know, to basically be able to service the
33 $34 trillion of runaway debt that the US has that now. So
they have to get creative to put this debt in other places. Yeah,
WW: so Shanahan's project, it was after she graduated, oh,
excuse me, um, it was through like a part of Stanford called
Code x. And the project is titled, and analysis of carbon
credit markets as validation for climate supportive quantitative
easing, using the blockchain and was specifically about creating
a carbon coin that works in tandem with existing carbon
markets. Very crazy. We'll leave that in the show notes for
anyone that wants to read that, but I'm pretty interesting
considering that we've had there's been a lot of, you know,
Bitcoin specific rhetoric from from RFK. I mean, he was one of
the, I think, earliest presidential candidates to like,
openly endorse Bitcoin, but I think we can expect Trump to go
on that same. He's doing it. Yeah. Yeah. So well, he I don't
think he'll be, you know, the only main one for for much
longer. But I think, you know, it'd be interesting to watch
that space in particular, obviously, I'm a very guarded
and found my opinion on the whole Kennedy campaign right now
since the ever since the Gaza stuff, but in things that have
happened since obviously, but I think the Shanahan you know,
pick is quite telling, and I mean, have some, she, through
her foundation has some affiliations with the whole
Effective Altruism crowd. And it's the former wife of Sergey
Brin, allegedly breaking up because she had a tryst with
Elon Musk, which they both deny. And she says, Actually, she was
trying to look for solutions. She said for her autistic
daughter via neural link. And that was her reason for eating
with meeting with Musk but either way, I mean, wanting to
brain ship your autistic child, I just definitely doesn't really
seem like what they've been trying to market, the Kennedy
campaign as as supporting in terms of health, freedom and all
of that, but anyway, don't don't want to get too into that.
MG: And currently married to a former VP of lightning Labs,
which is the Jack Dorsey funded Bitcoin company that builds on
the Lightning Network, which is its main product is taproot
assets, which is attempting to bring us dt, which is tether
dollar denominated stable coins to Bitcoin. You know, that's
literally what they're working on. Also, interestingly,
Elizabeth Stark, the CEO, kind of infamously denied Epstein
attempts at funding her product, you know, through the the MIT,
you know, kind of blockchain labs already in there. Yeah,
exactly. So kind of interesting that there's a there was a big
dollarization push, directly funded or attempted to be funded
by Epstein when she said no, you know, here we are, we got Dorsey
and some other some other folks throwing money that way. So Reid
Hoffman, some other people?
WW: Well, we could definitely go on for a long time talking about
all of this stuff. But I think we've covered a lot of ground
here. Is there anything you'd like to wrap up with Mark,
before we go?
MG: You know, just that, I think it's really important to, you
know, yes. See what they're saying. Because, again, I think
that they say a lot. For whatever reason, karmic up
solution, whatever it is, they like to say a lot of their plans
and these little meetings, that they have these little side
conference things and whatever and say, you know, quiet part
out loud, for sure. But also, you know, rhetoric is one thing
and action as the other. So I think especially when navigating
this world right now, it's really important to look at, you
know what they're saying, but take it with the iceberg of
salt, and really look at what their actions are. I think
that's really important for where we're going next, because
rhetoric is really the name of the game that they control
discourse with. And we're in this crazy algo driven social
media world, you know, where, you know, we're have clips of
presidential candidates with chainsaws and you They were just
in such clown world. And really look at what their rhetoric are,
look at who they're surrounding themselves with, look at these
companies that are being created and, and, you know, look at
boards, like no one looks at VC stuff, so much of this project,
this writing came about from us just like digging through, you
know, who founded what, you know, we have 10,000 words of
notes of literally just raw data of VC firms, and seed funding.
And I think that, you know, stuff like that, you know, it's
all out there, there's so much available information and just
really like, arm yourself with it. Don't fall for the rhetoric,
cuz, you know, there's, there's a whole new paradigm that's
coming. And, you know, they want us to be as useful and as
idiotic as possible. And I think we have to just be really
skeptical of everything. And, again, really thankful to be
here. It's a pleasure to write with you and work with you. And
yeah, I'm really thankful to be here on on limited hanging out
once again, thanks so much.
WW: Yeah, absolutely. And before signing off, I just want to
piggyback on that. I mean, the amount of money and energy
that's being directed into getting people to consent to the
stuff is truly outrageous. I mean, if you think about it all
this effort in, you know, I don't want to say just Trump,
but sort of like that political sphere in which he is enmeshed.
There is a an effort to manufacture consent among that
particular the, the people they're trying to appeal to
their base, right? To give consent for digital ID, no
anonymity online, all of these different agendas. And they're
going to do it in all sorts of whatever ways. I mean, we
already seen it with like, the smart wall stuff. Obviously, the
migrant migration situation is out of control. But it's been
out of control for a very long time, but there's been increased
agitation about it, and the solution being offered as the
smart wall, which is, you know, a bipartisan spook back thing.
So, I mean, it's going to be coming from either side,
whichever side, they think they can sell it most effectively,
but they are selling it, and they're going to go out of their
way to sell it to people, but the fact that they're investing
so much money in selling, it means that they need to think
made, they need to make people think that it's worth using,
they need people to voluntarily onboard onto the system. And
that is why they're putting so much money onto it. So what does
that tell us? That tells us that if you don't comply, or you
don't use it, it will fail. And that, I think, is what they're
most concerned about going through all this effort. I mean,
you see it with the carbon market, too. They've been trying
to foist the carbon market on the world for a very long time.
It's been very unsuccessful, it's been exposed time and time
again, is a giant grift palooza. But they they're not disarming
it or trying to, you know, it's not going anywhere. They're
trying to find new ways to sell it to people, you know, even
creating entire new like mini industries to try and prop it
up. So I think the fact I think that speaks a lot to like, how
much our willingness to comply or not comply is a factor in how
far all of this stuff goes. So I'm definitely appreciate you
and your contributions to this project in order to help people
see what's really going on here, at least, you know, the little
pieces of the puzzle that we've been picking away at over the
past several months. So thanks a lot Mark. So where can people
find your work and support you?
MG: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. editor in chief of Bitcoin
magazine, and author of the Bitcoin dollar, which you can
get at Bitcoin magazine. And some other big online
marketplaces. Yeah, come check us out. I think we do some good
work there. And you can find me on Twitter at Mark. Good W under
score I n. Okay,
WW: great. Well, thanks so much, Mark. And thanks, everyone, for
listening, and especially everyone that supports this
podcast. Thanks so much. Catch you all next time.