1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,580 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:14,860 - Hey everybody, welcome to Phantom Power Business Hour. 3 00:00:14,860 --> 00:00:18,860 It is Monday, Monday the fourth of March, 4 00:00:18,860 --> 00:00:22,020 and fun conversation today, looking forward 5 00:00:22,020 --> 00:00:23,660 to talking to this gentleman. 6 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:26,260 I know I spend a boatload of my time 7 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,580 in the music world and the music industry, 8 00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:32,100 talking about independent musicians. 9 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:36,820 And then lo and behold, this gentleman comes across my path 10 00:00:36,820 --> 00:00:41,820 who is filmmaker and founder of IndieHub.studio. 11 00:00:41,820 --> 00:00:46,260 His name is Zach Mahoney, and Zach is, 12 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:49,140 as you could probably figure out, a filmmaker, 13 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:51,660 and a resident of Los Angeles, actually, 14 00:00:51,660 --> 00:00:55,460 just a couple of blocks away from my wife and I used to live. 15 00:00:55,460 --> 00:00:59,140 So Zach, welcome, thanks very much for coming on the show, dude. 16 00:00:59,140 --> 00:01:01,420 - Absolutely, thank you for having me, looking forward to it. 17 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:04,060 - Yeah, let's rip it up. 18 00:01:04,060 --> 00:01:06,500 I mean, this is gonna be a fun conversation for me, 19 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:11,500 because my experience with film and Indie filmmakers 20 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:17,460 is relegated to a really small portion of my brain. 21 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:23,220 Now, I was lucky enough to be an extra on a couple of shows 22 00:01:23,220 --> 00:01:25,260 when I lived in LA, and of course, 23 00:01:25,260 --> 00:01:28,700 I've seen my daughter doing videos and things like that. 24 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:30,420 But it's, you know, it stands to reason 25 00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:31,900 that you guys have the same struggles 26 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:34,700 as independent musicians do. 27 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:38,660 So I'm thrilled to hear that you are in V, 28 00:01:38,660 --> 00:01:41,060 that you're down with value for value and Bitcoin 29 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:41,900 and all that kind of stuff. 30 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:44,500 So let's start at the very beginning, dude, 31 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:46,300 where we know you're out in the studio, 32 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:48,740 a city, you know, neighborhood of Los Angeles, 33 00:01:48,740 --> 00:01:52,100 but where are you from and how'd you get into filmmaking? 34 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:55,900 - Well, all good, all great questions. 35 00:01:55,900 --> 00:02:00,740 I'm from a little town up in Northern California, 36 00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:03,300 called Nevada City, Nevada City Grass Valley, 37 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:06,460 kind of the same spot when you're from up there. 38 00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:09,180 Tiny little, tiny little spot up in the Sierra Nevada, 39 00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:10,180 as well as Sierra Nevada, 40 00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:12,260 sort of in between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe. 41 00:02:12,260 --> 00:02:19,060 And I got into acting because I was the loudest kid 42 00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:22,820 in a class in like second grade or whatever, 43 00:02:22,820 --> 00:02:24,900 and the teacher was like, okay, you're the lead, 44 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:27,460 because people can hear you, shut up. 45 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:29,500 - Yeah, sure. 46 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:33,620 - So that kind of got me into it and it was a natural fit. 47 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:34,460 I loved it. 48 00:02:34,460 --> 00:02:35,300 I loved it from the very beginning. 49 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:38,700 And then right around eighth grade or whatever, 50 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:41,300 teachers start talking to you about what you're supposed to do 51 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:44,300 for job or money, you start thinking about high school 52 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:45,420 and college and all that. 53 00:02:45,420 --> 00:02:48,540 And I guess the thought sort of occurred to me like, 54 00:02:48,540 --> 00:02:52,460 man, if I could be an actor, that'd be sweet. 55 00:02:52,460 --> 00:02:54,180 That'd be super down for that. 56 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:59,180 And lo and behold, this guy came to town from LA, 57 00:02:59,180 --> 00:03:02,780 he was actually born and raised in Grass Valley as well. 58 00:03:02,780 --> 00:03:03,940 He was much older than me. 59 00:03:03,940 --> 00:03:06,220 I was like 14 at the time. 60 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:08,460 But he'd gone down to LA to be a filmmaker 61 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:11,780 and he came back up to Grass Valley to produce this movie. 62 00:03:11,780 --> 00:03:14,300 And there were a couple of legitimate names attached to it 63 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:16,540 and it was kind of a big deal at that time. 64 00:03:16,540 --> 00:03:19,660 So everybody in the town's auditioning for this movie, 65 00:03:19,660 --> 00:03:21,340 I'm like lines out the door. 66 00:03:21,340 --> 00:03:23,140 It was totally ridiculous. 67 00:03:23,140 --> 00:03:25,220 Like, you know, I think thousand people showed up 68 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:26,220 or whatever it was. 69 00:03:26,220 --> 00:03:27,060 - Yeah. 70 00:03:27,060 --> 00:03:29,180 - Yeah, start. 71 00:03:29,180 --> 00:03:30,180 - Exactly. 72 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:36,340 Long, long story short, developed a friendship 73 00:03:36,340 --> 00:03:38,420 with this guy and the other people working on the movie. 74 00:03:38,420 --> 00:03:43,420 And one of the casting director on the film at the time, 75 00:03:43,420 --> 00:03:48,580 after I auditioned for her, basically called me up and said, 76 00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:50,060 hey, I think you have a lot of talent. 77 00:03:50,060 --> 00:03:52,660 And I'd be interested in managing your career 78 00:03:52,660 --> 00:03:54,700 if you'd be interested in moving to LA. 79 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:57,780 And her name was up on a couple of movie posters. 80 00:03:57,780 --> 00:04:00,420 I coincidentally had it in my room and I was like, yep. 81 00:04:00,420 --> 00:04:01,420 (laughs) 82 00:04:01,420 --> 00:04:02,260 I'm in. 83 00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:03,100 I'm in. 84 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:03,940 - I'm leaving. 85 00:04:03,940 --> 00:04:05,100 - She's like, what? 86 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:06,380 (laughs) 87 00:04:06,380 --> 00:04:08,540 - Ace Deuce on this place later on. 88 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:11,740 So I tested out at high school early. 89 00:04:11,740 --> 00:04:15,940 I got a job at McDonald's at like 15 or whatever, 90 00:04:15,940 --> 00:04:20,060 saved up like 400 bucks, 500 bucks, 91 00:04:20,060 --> 00:04:22,020 moved to LA during a pilot season. 92 00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:25,500 With like a kind of a distant relative 93 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:27,500 that I didn't know super well. 94 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:30,060 And I was basically like, I'm gonna come down here 95 00:04:30,060 --> 00:04:32,380 for this pilot season and if I don't book a job 96 00:04:32,380 --> 00:04:34,540 in three or four months, then I'm gonna go back home 97 00:04:34,540 --> 00:04:37,700 and go to community college and kind of figure it out 98 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:38,540 from there. 99 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:42,620 Right at the three month mark when I'd run out of money. 100 00:04:42,620 --> 00:04:43,900 Like I went down there and I was like, 101 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:46,300 you know, I got 500 bucks or whatever. 102 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:47,180 I'm bi- 103 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:48,020 - Easy. 104 00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:51,100 - I bought like an Xbox game, like immediately. 105 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:53,540 (laughs) 106 00:04:53,540 --> 00:04:54,700 - Oh, no. 107 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:55,540 - I'm free. 108 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:56,540 - Yeah. 109 00:04:56,540 --> 00:04:57,380 - Poor. 110 00:04:57,380 --> 00:04:58,380 - Exactly. 111 00:04:58,380 --> 00:05:00,380 Like shit, that would've been like 10 sandwiches. 112 00:05:00,380 --> 00:05:05,020 So basically ran out of money and like right 113 00:05:05,020 --> 00:05:06,860 when I ran out of money, I booked my first job 114 00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:09,180 which was a spec orange juice commercial. 115 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:10,220 And if I remember correctly, 116 00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:14,980 I think it was John Seale who was directing it. 117 00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:15,980 He was trying to get into directing 118 00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:20,100 and he's obviously a huge cinematographer. 119 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:21,340 I didn't really appreciate it at the time, 120 00:05:21,340 --> 00:05:24,900 but I was like, cool, 650 bucks, cash, let's go. 121 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:27,540 So that kept me going. 122 00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:30,540 Then I booked a play for like 120 bucks a week. 123 00:05:30,540 --> 00:05:32,300 And so that was basically like gas money 124 00:05:32,300 --> 00:05:35,460 to like get to the play and like, you know, subway occasionally 125 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:36,300 or whatever. 126 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:37,140 - And- 127 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:39,420 - Play how I have to ask what playhouse? 128 00:05:39,420 --> 00:05:43,460 - It was the one man like on seventh and Wilshire 129 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:44,540 out in Santa Monica. 130 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:46,660 It's kind of a- 131 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:48,540 - Is that a black box? 132 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:49,780 - No, it was like an- 133 00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:51,500 Actually, it feels more like an old church 134 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:54,340 but they turned it into like a community theater. 135 00:05:54,340 --> 00:05:55,180 - Okay. 136 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:56,940 - And it's in a park right there on the corner. 137 00:05:56,940 --> 00:05:59,700 It's now totally overtaken by crackheads and whatnot. 138 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:04,540 But so I've drive down there to do my thing. 139 00:06:04,540 --> 00:06:05,980 And then right when the play premiered, 140 00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:08,100 I think the night of the premiere, I wanna say, 141 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:13,180 I booked a big Disney world kind of national spot 142 00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:16,180 that paid a bunch of money. 143 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:17,660 It's like five figures, you know. 144 00:06:17,660 --> 00:06:19,660 And back in the day, you got residuals, you know. 145 00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:22,540 And so that money would just keep coming in for however long. 146 00:06:22,540 --> 00:06:23,940 So that was kind of it. 147 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:27,020 After, I don't remember if that was six months or a year, 148 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:29,020 but that kind of kept me there. 149 00:06:29,020 --> 00:06:32,620 My mom had to fly out Florida with me to shoot this commercial. 150 00:06:32,620 --> 00:06:35,020 It was with a big action director and huge budget 151 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:36,020 and a bunch of crazy stuff. 152 00:06:36,020 --> 00:06:38,700 And they paid us a bunch of per DM when we got into the hotel 153 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:42,500 and my mom was like, okay, I guess I guess this is legitimate. 154 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:43,340 - Yeah. 155 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:44,180 - Yeah. 156 00:06:44,180 --> 00:06:45,340 And that was kind of it, man. 157 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:48,420 And then it was just a whole whirlwind of other stuff. 158 00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:50,940 That's how I got into the film business. 159 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:53,860 - Wow, that's cool. 160 00:06:53,860 --> 00:06:56,620 What was the, say it was a Disney like commercial? 161 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:58,820 - Yeah. 162 00:06:58,820 --> 00:07:01,100 So they were promoting at the time. 163 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:02,740 I think they probably got rid of it. 164 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:04,700 I'm not sure, but at Disney World in Florida, 165 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:06,740 they had brought over this French. 166 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:10,300 There was an action show that they did at Disney World in France 167 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:12,700 and they were bringing it over to Florida. 168 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:17,300 And so it was called something, something extreme, 169 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:20,060 like extreme stunt show, whatever. 170 00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:23,020 And so the attraction was actually they had a big, 171 00:07:23,020 --> 00:07:24,620 you know, you could fit a lot of people. 172 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:25,980 It was like a grandstand. 173 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:27,940 And then they had what looked like a Hollywood back lot 174 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:29,300 and they'd have all these stunt drivers 175 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:30,900 and motorcycle people and stunt men 176 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:33,900 like just perform what felt like it was kind of behind 177 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:34,740 the scenes action movie. 178 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:36,820 So there's just like explosions and cars flying 179 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:39,220 all over the place and people shooting guns. 180 00:07:39,220 --> 00:07:41,300 And so they played that in like movie theaters 181 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:44,420 on the East Coast for, I don't got five years 182 00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:45,860 or something, six years. 183 00:07:45,860 --> 00:07:46,700 - Wow. 184 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:51,540 Well now how did you go from acting into filmmaking? 185 00:07:51,540 --> 00:07:55,860 - So we kind of always been filmmakers, you know, 186 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:59,820 I mean, my buddies and I from whatever, fifth grade, sixth grade, 187 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:03,380 like the second we got our hands on a little video recorder, 188 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:05,540 it was kind of over, you know, we realized we could like 189 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:07,300 reverse footage and then that was it. 190 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:08,860 It was like, I could dunk, you know? 191 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:09,700 - Yeah. 192 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:11,380 (laughing) 193 00:08:11,380 --> 00:08:12,860 - So we started editing pretty quickly 194 00:08:12,860 --> 00:08:16,260 and I got a final cut system when I was like, 195 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:18,340 I wanna say like 13 or 14. 196 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:19,580 - Wow. 197 00:08:19,580 --> 00:08:20,420 - Yeah. 198 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:22,420 And like kind of taught myself that over the years. 199 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:23,260 I think that- 200 00:08:23,260 --> 00:08:25,220 - So for those who don't know, final, I started to interrupt, 201 00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:27,900 but final cut, like for the musicians who were listening, 202 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:32,180 final cut is to video what pro tools is to audio. 203 00:08:32,180 --> 00:08:33,420 - Yeah, yeah. 204 00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:36,860 It was like the new, the new pro tools, you know? 205 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:39,620 It wasn't an avid obviously, but yeah. 206 00:08:39,620 --> 00:08:43,020 But yeah, for 13, you know, that was kind of a serious commitment 207 00:08:43,020 --> 00:08:45,620 to some technology, but I think really like, 208 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:47,660 probably the first time I ever operated camera was like 209 00:08:47,660 --> 00:08:49,380 recording a church video, you know? 210 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:53,060 It's just like zoom in super slow, zoom out, super slow. 211 00:08:53,060 --> 00:08:55,580 (laughing) 212 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:57,420 So anyway, long story short, like I'd always been fascinated 213 00:08:57,420 --> 00:08:58,700 by the technology I loved editing. 214 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:01,060 We always had fun as kids, we'd like write scripts 215 00:09:01,060 --> 00:09:03,100 and stuff, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, whatever. 216 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:06,140 - So when actually kind of a similar situation, 217 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:11,140 so in 2008, there was a big strike happened in Hollywood. 218 00:09:11,140 --> 00:09:14,980 That coincided right around the time, 219 00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:17,260 the same time can, and released the 5D Mark II, 220 00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:18,700 the internet was getting better, 221 00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:19,900 and Netflix was on the scene. 222 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:23,620 So these three things, top politics, technology, 223 00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:26,420 and economics, all three of these converged 224 00:09:26,420 --> 00:09:28,820 and absolutely demolished. 225 00:09:28,820 --> 00:09:31,980 I mean, the world was messed up anyway, because of 2008, 226 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:33,860 but what people don't know about the industry 227 00:09:33,860 --> 00:09:35,140 is you had the technology component, 228 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:38,540 the 5D Mark II changed the game, completely changed the game. 229 00:09:38,540 --> 00:09:40,420 And Netflix was doing it thing. 230 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:43,700 So politics, technology, economics, politics being the strike, 231 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:46,260 technology, and then obviously the economy collapsed. 232 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:51,260 So that was another massive transformation of Hollywood 233 00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:53,220 as a business. 234 00:09:53,220 --> 00:09:55,940 It completely changed everything. 235 00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:58,460 So I was, I was like, just not, 236 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:01,620 I just kind of entered the business in the old model, 237 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:05,100 a few years prior, three or four years prior. 238 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:09,260 And then when 2008 hit, kind of everything changed. 239 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:13,060 And after a few years, I started to realize, 240 00:10:13,060 --> 00:10:15,220 like I was, forgive pardon my friends, 241 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:19,100 but the pile of shit at the bottom just grew and grew 242 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:20,260 and grew and grew and grew. 243 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:23,260 And I didn't want to, I just got sick of auditioning 244 00:10:23,260 --> 00:10:26,380 for garbage, you know, before that, it was like, 245 00:10:26,380 --> 00:10:27,780 there was some great stuff going on, 246 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:30,420 and then it was like, I am, but I am absolutely bustin', 247 00:10:30,420 --> 00:10:31,780 like that didn't come here to do this. 248 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:33,340 I really didn't. 249 00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:34,180 So I got sick of it. 250 00:10:34,180 --> 00:10:36,300 And that kind of motivated a buddy of mine, 251 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:39,260 a good friend of mine had kind of moved down with me 252 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:40,540 to LA around the same time. 253 00:10:40,540 --> 00:10:44,420 And he's a phenomenal cinematographer and filmmaker. 254 00:10:44,420 --> 00:10:47,460 And so this was like maybe mid-20s-ish, 255 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:48,780 and we were just fed up and we said, 256 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:51,660 we need to do something that has some value 257 00:10:51,660 --> 00:10:52,820 and some meaning and importance. 258 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:55,980 And this documentary kind of just fell in our lap, 259 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:58,860 the story of this, this guy named Kyle Bryant. 260 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:01,540 And it was kind of off to the races. 261 00:11:01,540 --> 00:11:06,180 And I went and shot this documentary and that was kind of 262 00:11:06,180 --> 00:11:09,740 the entrance into like actual production for me. 263 00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:15,020 - Let me bring up one real quick thing, about 2008, 264 00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:19,860 to the lot of people may not remember or have an idea about, 265 00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:23,700 but 2008 is really about the time that Web 2 266 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:28,300 really took its strangle hold on society. 267 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:33,300 Web 2 being the walled gardens of Facebook of social media, 268 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:41,380 of the interaction between people on the web, 269 00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:44,300 especially with cell phones. 270 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:49,300 So culturally like 2008 is a big year as far as Web 2 271 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:51,500 and technology is concerned. 272 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:54,420 And that of course relates to where we're eventually 273 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:55,260 gonna talk about. 274 00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:59,460 But yeah, like I just, I totally, 275 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:01,500 when you talked about those three things, 276 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,660 the economy, the technology and the industry, 277 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:08,780 like it's just light bulbs went off for me, man. 278 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:10,940 Like I get it, absolutely. 279 00:12:10,940 --> 00:12:12,620 - Yeah, 100%. 280 00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:14,500 - I forget where I read that originally, 281 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:20,540 that it was a long time ago, but this idea that 282 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:24,740 when those three things kind of culminate 283 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:27,380 in any industry, it's guaranteed to get 284 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:30,700 absolutely demolished and then rebuilt from the ground up. 285 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:33,340 And that's exactly what happened in 2008. 286 00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:35,220 And when I put the two and two together, 287 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:36,900 I went, that's what happened. 288 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,380 That's exactly what happened. 289 00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:43,380 - Okay, technology, economy, and what's the third again? 290 00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:46,180 - Politics. 291 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:53,180 And here we are again, everything old, 292 00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:55,100 is new again. 293 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,740 That's a bear naked lady song, by the way. 294 00:12:58,740 --> 00:12:59,740 It's a deep cut. 295 00:12:59,740 --> 00:13:04,220 - Oh, I haven't heard that band name in a minute. 296 00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:07,140 - And that is a deep cut off of their second release 297 00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:08,860 called Maybe You Should Drive. 298 00:13:08,860 --> 00:13:10,900 - All right, sorry. 299 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:16,660 So, all right, so now it's 2008, 2009, 2010, 300 00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,820 you gotta like a documentary thing going, 301 00:13:18,820 --> 00:13:22,580 you're tired of auditioning for crap. 302 00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:28,060 Sounds like some of the bands around the Nashville area. 303 00:13:28,060 --> 00:13:32,980 And you start making your way over to filmmaking. 304 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:36,100 So tell us about some of the projects you've been involved with. 305 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:39,500 - Oh man, all kinds of random stuff. 306 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:45,140 Yeah, so my buddy and I Kevin did this documentary 307 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:47,620 and it took us, you know, there's the, 308 00:13:47,620 --> 00:13:49,180 there's the, what are they? 309 00:13:49,180 --> 00:13:50,180 I was looking this up the other day. 310 00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:52,020 They call it the Iron Triangle. 311 00:13:52,020 --> 00:13:53,140 There's a few other words for it, 312 00:13:53,140 --> 00:13:57,100 but it's the good fast cheap pick to situation. 313 00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:03,140 And we had this movie and we didn't have any money 314 00:14:03,140 --> 00:14:05,580 and I needed it to be good. 315 00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:06,940 I wanted it to be good. 316 00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:08,660 So it was gonna take us a long time. 317 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:13,660 So producing this doc took us like five years 318 00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:17,620 from starting to shoot it to actually releasing it, 319 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:19,260 mostly just because we didn't have money 320 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:21,500 and we wanted it to be decent. 321 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:22,980 So my buddy Kevin and I kind of moonlighted 322 00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:25,140 doing this documentary over a number of years. 323 00:14:25,140 --> 00:14:29,660 While that was happening, I was actually studying, 324 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,100 I was kind of deep in a studying acting 325 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:33,740 at a studio here in LA, 326 00:14:33,740 --> 00:14:36,620 Myzard studio called Baron Brown. 327 00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:38,660 And so I was super deep in and that 328 00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:40,100 and this was kind of like the middle of my transition 329 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:41,700 while we were producing this documentary. 330 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:44,020 And then I kind of fell into, 331 00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:49,780 we fell into shooting a lot of dance stuff. 332 00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:50,620 - Okay. 333 00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:52,220 - Like contemporary ballet, 334 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:55,940 we kind of fell into a group of some really, really world class 335 00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:58,180 dancers, contemporary and ballet. 336 00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:03,500 And so we went and shot a bunch of really kind of avant-garde, 337 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:06,780 super fun dance stuff for like a number of years. 338 00:15:06,780 --> 00:15:08,580 We did a lot of really cool fun stuff there. 339 00:15:08,580 --> 00:15:10,340 And that kind of kicked it off 340 00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:13,180 and then that kind of pushed stuff into music videos 341 00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:16,100 and we did a bunch of shorts 342 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:19,180 and then that kind of progressed into like, 343 00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:21,100 we just kind of realized we were good, 344 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:24,140 at least I did, we were good at run and gun stuff. 345 00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:26,420 You know, multi-cam live stuff 346 00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:28,340 that you get one opportunity to shoot. 347 00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:31,780 So we kind of started trying to cut ourselves 348 00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:34,780 a little bit of a business niche of, you know, 349 00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:37,580 doing a lot of run and gun high intensity, 350 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:39,620 you know, you get one opportunity to do it kind of thing. 351 00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:44,380 So that sort of evolved into an event media business, 352 00:15:44,380 --> 00:15:45,620 conventions, 353 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:50,300 corporate stuff, commercials. 354 00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:52,780 Oh, I mean, literally just weddings. 355 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:56,020 All right. 356 00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:57,180 All right. 357 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:58,660 So let me just insert a joke. 358 00:15:58,660 --> 00:16:00,740 Like you only got one chance to get it right at the wedding. 359 00:16:00,740 --> 00:16:02,300 We're not doing this again. 360 00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:03,660 Exactly. 361 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:05,660 Exactly. 362 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:08,260 Can you guys stop and do your bows over again? 363 00:16:08,260 --> 00:16:09,980 Yeah, cut. 364 00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:14,220 Look, honey, I'm gonna need you to have more emotion here. 365 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:15,340 Yeah. 366 00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:17,100 I didn't feel that one, bro. 367 00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:19,420 Yeah. 368 00:16:19,420 --> 00:16:20,260 You didn't take five. 369 00:16:20,260 --> 00:16:24,860 Bicker, sir, Montsenier, Padre, whatever your name is. 370 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:25,700 Really? Come on. 371 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,420 Let a little more conviction about the vows 372 00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:29,380 and the importance of these sanctity of marriage. 373 00:16:29,380 --> 00:16:30,220 Please. 374 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:31,060 All right. 375 00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:32,060 Everybody from the top. 376 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:34,980 Or, or, you know, almost that would almost be respectable, 377 00:16:34,980 --> 00:16:35,980 but the problem would always be like, 378 00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:37,980 Oh, fuck, my microphone's not turned on. 379 00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:40,460 (laughing) 380 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:41,300 Yeah. 381 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:43,100 You know, what does sound guys call us, 382 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:44,300 vitiates, you know? 383 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:45,140 It's a classic. 384 00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:45,980 It's a classic. 385 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:47,060 Oh, it's a classic, yeah. 386 00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:47,900 Oh, great. 387 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:48,740 Yeah, that's good. 388 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:50,340 I always appreciate inside humor. 389 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:51,180 That's good. 390 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:52,660 (laughing) 391 00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:53,500 Wow. 392 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,860 Okay, so now, so how many years have you been, 393 00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:59,380 has this been your main business model, 394 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:01,060 your main source of income now? 395 00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:01,980 Oh, Reynolds, too. 396 00:17:01,980 --> 00:17:03,940 I got into the equipment rental business for a while. 397 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:04,780 Okay, good. 398 00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:05,620 Yeah. 399 00:17:05,620 --> 00:17:06,460 Good. 400 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:11,460 That was, that was probably, man, 2015 to, 401 00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:16,220 all at 15 to 20, something like that. 402 00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:20,980 Yeah, I'd say like 13 to 20, something like that. 403 00:17:20,980 --> 00:17:24,420 And then along comes COVID and I'm sure all your plans 404 00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:25,940 just completely upended. 405 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:28,780 We were literally going to hire our first full time, 406 00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:32,820 W2, like salary to employee on the Monday, 407 00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:36,660 that they, and they closed down the entire, 408 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:39,620 if everybody remembers, they closed it down on a Friday. 409 00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:40,460 No, I bet. 410 00:17:40,460 --> 00:17:43,300 We were like, we gotta do this thing on Monday. 411 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:44,300 Wow. 412 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,340 (laughing) 413 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:47,340 Excuse me. 414 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:48,180 Yeah. 415 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:52,220 Yeah, I mean, and that, so that sort of, 416 00:17:52,220 --> 00:17:55,460 that sort of segues into what we're up to now 417 00:17:55,460 --> 00:17:56,900 or where things are at now, I guess, 418 00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:01,900 the very quick version, but I had kind of stumbled 419 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:06,580 into the crypto rabbit hole in 2017. 420 00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:07,420 Okay. 421 00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:12,660 And so COVID hits, shuts down, you know, 422 00:18:12,660 --> 00:18:15,060 I'm not doing any large events with multiple cameras. 423 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:16,460 I guess not happening. 424 00:18:16,460 --> 00:18:19,220 So with, you know, 2,000 people in a room or whatever. 425 00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:24,300 And so then it kind of led to, you know, 426 00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:28,900 the, what you guys called the value for value or web five, 427 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,060 well, I don't, we gotta come to, 428 00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:33,100 everybody asked for great answers terms, too many. 429 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:34,820 Yeah, there needs to be a meeting. 430 00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:36,100 Yeah, all right guys. 431 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,100 Yeah, seriously, we need to, we need to call a meeting, 432 00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,420 Dorsey, whoever else, like let's talk. 433 00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:43,100 Can we all agree on the terminology here? 434 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:49,620 So yeah, so how, so, you know, I am fascinated 435 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:54,700 as a guy who has spent, you know, 30 some odd years 436 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,340 in and around the music industry 437 00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,780 and really fighting for independence 438 00:18:59,780 --> 00:19:02,540 and loving independent musicians. 439 00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:07,980 How, let's talk about being an independent, 440 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:10,260 filmmaker, I mean, my God, we, we, we talk, 441 00:19:10,260 --> 00:19:12,780 we always talk about how tough it is for an independent artist 442 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:16,940 to, to make a living, you know, but God, it's, 443 00:19:16,940 --> 00:19:19,460 it's the, it's the exact same thing for you guys, you know, 444 00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:22,940 I mean, I mean, there are those rare moments 445 00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:25,980 of independent films or, you know, the, the script 446 00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:28,860 that gets tossed around, you know, the, the, the swingers 447 00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:32,500 of the world that break out into the mainstream 448 00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:34,940 or for that matter, even goodwill hunting, I guess, 449 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:36,020 in some respects. 450 00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:42,460 But talk about the challenges of independent filmmaking. 451 00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:49,660 - It's a great question and it's one that my understanding 452 00:19:49,660 --> 00:19:54,300 for has changed, pre-significantly over the years. 453 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:59,300 So when I started my life down here, 454 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:05,660 I was very hardcore, you know, artist type. 455 00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:12,300 I had zero, maybe negative respect for anything related 456 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:15,380 to finance or business or money. 457 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:18,740 I just wasn't raised with it. 458 00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:20,260 I didn't have any familiarity with it 459 00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:23,220 and I had a very immature, disdain for it, 460 00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:26,660 based on some of my own upbringing 461 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:31,660 and my family's, you know, history and, this and that. 462 00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:35,620 So I guess I, I guess I say that because I really started 463 00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:38,060 from like zero or maybe backwards of zero 464 00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:41,260 with regards to the business side of any of this. 465 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:46,260 So as a, as an artist, I was concerned with being good. 466 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,540 I was concerned with my craft. 467 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:53,540 I was concerned with skill and trying to, to be better at that. 468 00:20:53,540 --> 00:20:56,980 And then of course you run up into the professional world 469 00:20:56,980 --> 00:21:01,580 of it, which, you know, has less to do with skill and craft 470 00:21:01,580 --> 00:21:04,260 than we would, than we would like. 471 00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,100 Yeah, you know, you know, it's like, you just, 472 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,860 you're out there, you're hustling, you're auditioning, 473 00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:12,900 you're, you're being told, no, like 45 billion times. 474 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:16,740 And it doesn't really make any sense. 475 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:19,340 And you think it's, I thought it was, 476 00:21:19,340 --> 00:21:22,540 I thought it was a highly competitive business 477 00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:23,620 when I was young. 478 00:21:23,620 --> 00:21:29,860 And then my perspective around the business side 479 00:21:29,860 --> 00:21:31,540 of things started to change. 480 00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:33,260 As I started to run my own businesses 481 00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:35,900 and I started to understand how money worked 482 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,900 a little bit better and, I'm jumping ahead here, 483 00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:43,020 but kind of what I realized is that it's actually 484 00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:45,580 not a competitive business at all. 485 00:21:45,580 --> 00:21:47,380 And that's the problem. 486 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:50,980 Really, there's about, I mean, I'm glossing over this. 487 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:54,260 This is, I'm saying this for brevity's sake, 488 00:21:54,260 --> 00:21:56,140 I'm being, I'm being a little bit facetious. 489 00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:58,660 But like, there's like six people who ride all the checks. 490 00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:03,060 Yeah, you can say the same thing about the music industry. 491 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:04,740 Yeah, 100%. 492 00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:06,780 And that's, that's just not competitive. 493 00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:08,580 That's competitive for everybody except the people 494 00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:12,620 who are buying, which is not competitive. 495 00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:13,620 You know what I mean? 496 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:17,820 Every, the rest of it becomes deeply political 497 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:19,460 when there's no real market. 498 00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:23,020 And so when I was younger, I thought it was, 499 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:26,860 you know, I thought, I thought I needed to concern myself 500 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:28,900 at that time with being a good artist, 501 00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:29,740 which is true. 502 00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:33,020 I still hold to that, but I just didn't understand 503 00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:37,260 the business dynamics that made the business less about the art 504 00:22:37,260 --> 00:22:40,140 and more about the politics and where the actual money 505 00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:41,180 was coming from. 506 00:22:41,180 --> 00:22:46,180 And so in, in Hollywood pre 2008, as, you know, 507 00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:49,220 as messed up as Hollywood has been and as is a bad rap, 508 00:22:49,220 --> 00:22:51,500 as Hollywood gets and has gotten for a long time, 509 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,980 my experience of it pre 2008 was, 510 00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:58,420 was one where there was a little bit more of a, 511 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:01,060 there was more of a ladder, there was more of a process, 512 00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:02,900 it was a little bit more about talent. 513 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,060 If you had some good talent and you had some drive 514 00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:09,460 and you had decent reps and you were able to grind, 515 00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:11,420 you would be able to climb up the ladder. 516 00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:13,180 And back then the ladder was like, 517 00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:17,980 you start out in, you know, you might get, 518 00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:19,980 you might get a co-star on a TV show 519 00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:21,900 and then maybe you get a guest star 520 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:23,500 and then maybe you're on a show 521 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:25,700 and then maybe you'd go to an independent movie 522 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:27,860 and then if you could do that and get garnered audience 523 00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:30,300 and then maybe you make it to features 524 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:32,860 and that was where everybody wanted to be. 525 00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:37,860 2008 hit and the entire funnel started going backwards. 526 00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:41,620 The movie stars went into TV, the TV stars went down, 527 00:23:41,620 --> 00:23:43,220 the movie stars went to independence, 528 00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:47,100 independence went to TV, TV actors were like broke, you know. 529 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,540 - They went to, they went to beta max. 530 00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,460 - Exactly. 531 00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:53,220 - They were doing plays and they're garage. 532 00:23:53,220 --> 00:23:55,900 (laughing) 533 00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:58,340 And so the whole business started to reverse 534 00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:00,580 and I had no, I didn't, this is all me 535 00:24:00,580 --> 00:24:03,900 and you know looking back on it with the different lens. 536 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:08,260 I used to live over in Studio City near Universal 537 00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:13,100 and if you know that, you know, the 101 goes there under Ventura. 538 00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,340 - Yeah man, right there by the big potato. 539 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:18,660 - Yep, yep, by Vivian, Smolinium Cafe, 540 00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:20,900 used to frequent this. - Of course, quite a bit. 541 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,660 But there's the Universal Building, right? 542 00:24:23,660 --> 00:24:26,260 When I moved here, the skyscraper there, 543 00:24:26,260 --> 00:24:28,060 it just said Universal on. 544 00:24:29,020 --> 00:24:34,020 And then a few years passed and then it said NBC Universal. 545 00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:37,980 And then a few more years passed 546 00:24:37,980 --> 00:24:40,860 and now it says Comcast NBC Universal. 547 00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:42,740 (laughing) 548 00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:44,060 - Yeah. 549 00:24:44,060 --> 00:24:46,060 - And so, yeah. 550 00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:48,980 It's what happened in 2008 is, 551 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:53,220 there was the beginnings of this massive consolidation 552 00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:58,940 of these companies by larger publicly traded companies. 553 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,740 So, I'm just trying to get back to the artist perspective here, 554 00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:05,260 which was like, it was incredibly challenging. 555 00:25:05,260 --> 00:25:06,580 It was incredibly challenging 556 00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:07,900 and none of it made any sense 557 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:09,980 and it was incredibly frustrating. 558 00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:13,340 I remember realizing, 'cause I didn't really know any better. 559 00:25:13,340 --> 00:25:14,820 I had a job in McDonald's, you know, 560 00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:18,740 and then I went to LA and then my life was kind of in LA, 561 00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:20,860 doing filmmaking stuff. 562 00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:25,540 I don't, I remember when I started to like, 563 00:25:25,540 --> 00:25:27,740 you know, kind of poke around in the world outside 564 00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:29,020 of this business and I realized like, 565 00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:31,460 how much easier every other industry was. 566 00:25:31,460 --> 00:25:33,500 I was like, oh, you can just like decide to start a business 567 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,300 and go make money like quickly. 568 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:36,460 - What? 569 00:25:36,460 --> 00:25:37,500 - What? 570 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:39,900 And it wasn't until then that I realized how absolutely 571 00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:42,740 positively absurd this industry was 572 00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:44,500 'cause I just didn't have any perspective on it. 573 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:47,380 From just like a go do something and make money standpoint. 574 00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:48,220 - Yeah. 575 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:50,820 - Everything was dependent upon a few people 576 00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:55,820 making a judgment about you that was not really qualitative. 577 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:58,900 It was impossible to measure, it was super subjective. 578 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:04,660 And anyway, so it took me a number of years 579 00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:08,860 to realize like what was going on and maybe like, 580 00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:11,380 I don't know four, five years ago, 581 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:14,100 I realized that it was, the problem was really about risk. 582 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:18,860 And this consolidation of all of these entertainment companies 583 00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:20,740 and production companies and movie companies 584 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:22,380 and Netflix just taking over everything 585 00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:23,820 and that's being a tech company. 586 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,260 The appetite for risk was just completely stripped away. 587 00:26:29,260 --> 00:26:33,500 And so the art was stripped away, in my opinion, 588 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:35,820 in a big deal and a big way. 589 00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:40,140 So I don't know if that, I don't know if that, 590 00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:41,900 I kind of jumped all over the place, 591 00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:44,100 I don't know if that answered the question, but. 592 00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:49,100 - No, you draw a lot of parallels between film and music. 593 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:54,780 It's not necessarily a qualitative relationship 594 00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:59,060 relationship, it's a monetary relationship. 595 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:05,020 And I think that that draws us perfectly into value 596 00:27:05,020 --> 00:27:09,020 for value and why you started Indie Hub. 597 00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:13,900 So tell us about what your thoughts are for starting it, 598 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:18,740 where you see it, what it is, what you want it to become 599 00:27:18,740 --> 00:27:22,420 and where you see its potential lies. 600 00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:25,340 - I have to answer the crypto question, I guess, 601 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:27,340 to lead into that one. 602 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:30,740 - Well, everybody, I mean, if they're listening 603 00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:33,620 to this podcast that they know that we are here 604 00:27:33,620 --> 00:27:35,660 because of Bitcoin, right? 605 00:27:35,660 --> 00:27:36,500 - Right, right, right. 606 00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,620 No, no, I just mean like how I stumbled into it 607 00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:42,860 and then how that kind of connected dots for me. 608 00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:48,820 I stumbled into it in 2017. 609 00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:52,820 The buddy of mine called me up and I literally just happened, 610 00:27:52,820 --> 00:27:53,940 there was like one of those random day, 611 00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:55,380 I literally happened to be doing nothing. 612 00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:58,300 I was sitting in this little office 613 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,900 and I was literally had nothing to do, 614 00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:03,220 like one of the few times ever. 615 00:28:03,220 --> 00:28:05,340 He called me up, he said, "Come in, hit me up out of the theorem 616 00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:06,180 a couple of times." 617 00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:07,020 I don't know what that means. 618 00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:08,180 He's like, "You're gonna mine some theorem?" 619 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:09,900 I was like, "All right." 620 00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:11,140 Okay, what the fuck does that mean? 621 00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:12,900 I was sort of googling this, 622 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:15,020 just trying to figure this stuff out. 623 00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:18,060 Had literally no idea what he was talking about. 624 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:19,220 But he was kind of persistent about it 625 00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:21,060 and he had great ideas about stuff 626 00:28:21,060 --> 00:28:21,900 and was tapped into stuff. 627 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,260 So I was like, "All right, I got time to check that." 628 00:28:24,260 --> 00:28:30,540 - Honestly within like 45 minutes, I was hooked. 629 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:35,300 I was absolutely compelled mind-blowingly hooked 630 00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:38,580 and I had been pretty much as obsessed since then. 631 00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:39,820 What is that? 632 00:28:39,820 --> 00:28:40,660 Seven years? 633 00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:41,500 - Seven years. 634 00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:42,340 - Seven years, seven years ago. 635 00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:45,180 (laughing) 636 00:28:45,180 --> 00:28:47,940 So I got a similar story to everybody else. 637 00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:52,860 The thing that I had going for me is that I know 638 00:28:52,860 --> 00:28:56,180 that I'm an idiot and so I know that I didn't have any real 639 00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:59,300 opportunity to like gauge the value of any of these things 640 00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:00,660 and so I was like, "All right, I'm just gonna like buy 641 00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:02,420 everything and see what happens." 642 00:29:02,420 --> 00:29:03,260 - Yeah. 643 00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:10,900 And so I shit coin for a while and I started to realize 644 00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:15,140 I was really interested in XRP back in the day. 645 00:29:15,140 --> 00:29:17,620 And the reason I was interested in it was because they 646 00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:21,260 really at the time were the first, it was the first piece 647 00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:23,100 of software that actually allowed you to open a payment 648 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:25,620 channel and do like 50,000 transactions a second. 649 00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:27,260 Essentially what lightning is now, 650 00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:30,100 but this is before lightning was working. 651 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:31,300 And you could really open up a channel 652 00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,540 and you could do these transactions super, super quickly. 653 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:36,380 And I had just never thought, I had just never thought like, 654 00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:38,660 "Oh, you could, if you could pay for something 655 00:29:38,660 --> 00:29:41,540 in fractions of a penny for a second, 656 00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:44,980 well why couldn't you do that with a song or with a movie?" 657 00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:49,980 And I had just, this is a couple years after producing this 658 00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:51,860 documentary and producing this documentary, 659 00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:55,820 we had like 16 or 17 songs in it, like really great soundtrack 660 00:29:55,820 --> 00:29:56,540 at my opinion. 661 00:29:56,540 --> 00:30:00,540 And we had the wonderful help of a music supervisor 662 00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:02,980 by the name of Sean Farnall, he's fantastic. 663 00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:05,260 But there's absolutely no way we would have been able 664 00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:07,780 to navigate that without a music supervisor. 665 00:30:07,780 --> 00:30:11,620 And the contracts and the deals in that are, 666 00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:14,180 I mean, I know you guys all know this, but for me, 667 00:30:14,180 --> 00:30:15,900 I'm like, wait, so there's two sides? 668 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,340 And then there's gonna be like 10 people on a side 669 00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:20,540 and we gotta talk to all of them. 670 00:30:20,540 --> 00:30:22,420 I was like, this is outrageous. 671 00:30:22,420 --> 00:30:23,260 Like what? 672 00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:26,380 - So you got three writers and six publishing companies 673 00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:29,260 and then you got the guy from Hollywood Sound 674 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:32,460 who owns 20% of the Master's in Jesus. 675 00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:33,300 - Exactly. 676 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:35,540 I was like, what, how does any of this work? 677 00:30:35,540 --> 00:30:37,020 - Yeah. 678 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:38,620 And so it was pretty quick. 679 00:30:38,620 --> 00:30:39,460 It was pretty quick. 680 00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:41,620 Once I realized you could stream money for, you know, 681 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:44,140 and just gait like a movie or whatever. 682 00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:47,620 I was like, well, why couldn't we just distribute the rights? 683 00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:48,740 You know, I was deep in this problem 684 00:30:48,740 --> 00:30:50,060 and I was deeply frustrated by it. 685 00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:51,540 And there's a solution like pop, I was like, 686 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:54,020 well, why couldn't we just stream the value and just say, 687 00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:56,500 cool, you get 10% and you're split it to like your whole 688 00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,100 music industry and you guys get X% and it's like, 689 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:00,260 damn, this would be sweet. 690 00:31:00,260 --> 00:31:04,820 And I think at the time, I had no, 691 00:31:04,820 --> 00:31:08,300 I had no like aspiration to, I was a filmmaker. 692 00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:10,420 I wasn't, I'm not a developer. 693 00:31:10,420 --> 00:31:12,100 I certainly wasn't then. 694 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:15,100 So I was just kind of like waiting to see if it would happen. 695 00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:16,100 Like who would do it? 696 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:21,780 And then COVID hit. 697 00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:27,020 And I was like, well, I was deep into it at that point, 698 00:31:27,020 --> 00:31:29,180 deeply into the crypto world. 699 00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:32,860 I wanted to build this originally on the XRP ledger. 700 00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:38,220 And it was in trying to do that, 701 00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:40,500 that there's a lot of things that led me to Bitcoin, 702 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:41,780 but it was in trying to do that, 703 00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:45,340 that I started to understand what the Maxis were talking about 704 00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:49,380 with regards to actually the decentralization of the network. 705 00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:52,620 And I realized and I tried very hard to like figure out 706 00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:56,020 how I could run a node for the company, for a business. 707 00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:57,860 Like would this be possible? 708 00:31:57,860 --> 00:32:00,340 And participate in the network and shoot value around 709 00:32:00,340 --> 00:32:02,700 to artists and filmmakers and whatnot. 710 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:03,900 Nice. 711 00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:06,420 And I came up on the fact that like you can't. 712 00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:11,420 Like it would have been tens of thousands of dollars a month 713 00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:15,220 in hardware and bandwidth and networking expertise. 714 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:17,420 And Bitcoin was just like, oh, this is like download this thing 715 00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:18,620 over here on this hard drive. 716 00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:21,620 Yeah. 717 00:32:21,620 --> 00:32:25,820 That was kind of, yeah, that was one of the first of many things 718 00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:27,100 that sort of cracked that for me. 719 00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:31,980 Well, when you look at where it is now with Lightning 720 00:32:31,980 --> 00:32:35,940 and NOSTER and RSS and the fact that you're, 721 00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:40,940 I mean, tell us a little bit specifically about IndyHub.Studio 722 00:32:40,940 --> 00:32:46,340 and what you want to, what you have begun to create. 723 00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:47,340 Who is it for? 724 00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:52,300 So the idea is it's for film, it's for audience members. 725 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:54,700 Really what I want to do is I want to create a direct relationship 726 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,020 between audience members, filmmakers and investors. 727 00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:59,980 The investor piece is going to be outrageously complicated 728 00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:03,420 and we'll take probably many years and a lot of them, we'll see. 729 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:07,980 But for right now, I want to create a direct relationship 730 00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:10,020 between audience members and filmmakers. 731 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:13,900 And I want to, that market that I was talking about previously 732 00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:17,100 that I feel like is not competitive and is monopolistic. 733 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,540 It's monopolistic because they control, they have the money, 734 00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:22,020 they get to dictate where the money is going 735 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:24,100 and they also get to sort of control and manipulate 736 00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:27,860 how the money enters their little ecosystem in the first place. 737 00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:32,860 So for me, I want to just plug the audience, 738 00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:37,900 attention directly into the filmmakers product. 739 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:41,420 Every second that an audience member is watching something, 740 00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:45,780 that's going directly into the wallet of the filmmaker 741 00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:47,580 or anybody who's involved in that film. 742 00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:50,980 Let's say you and I wanted to go do a short music documentary, 743 00:33:50,980 --> 00:33:54,540 a co-cool, I'll give you 50%, I'll take 50% 744 00:33:54,540 --> 00:33:57,300 and we're being paid in real time as people are watching that movie 745 00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:59,420 and that value is being routed. 746 00:33:59,420 --> 00:34:02,540 Essentially, however we want it to on a percentage basis. 747 00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:06,500 And in so doing, at least hope, ideally, 748 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:09,860 we establish a direct market. 749 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:13,300 And so the people who are making great films 750 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:15,820 and who are focused on their craft and who are skillful 751 00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:19,860 and good at what their job is and they're okay to take risk. 752 00:34:19,860 --> 00:34:22,820 Risk is incredibly important and art is incredibly important. 753 00:34:22,820 --> 00:34:26,460 We're allowing them to take that risk 754 00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:28,940 and we're allowing them to be rewarded for that risk 755 00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:30,300 if they've done a good job. 756 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:31,780 And if they haven't done a good job, you're not going to be paid. 757 00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:33,660 It's simple, it shouldn't be that complicated. 758 00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:36,980 If the product is not of quality, 759 00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:41,980 it will be reflected in the value that is not given by the audience. 760 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:48,780 So as this company that you have formed begins to take hold, 761 00:34:48,780 --> 00:34:54,060 are you looking for only independent filmmakers? 762 00:34:54,060 --> 00:35:01,060 Are you looking for bands with either videos or live footage 763 00:35:01,060 --> 00:35:02,060 to put up? 764 00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:06,540 Are you looking for churches, put political organizations? 765 00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:07,780 What are you looking for? 766 00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:09,500 Who's your target market? 767 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:12,540 Great question. 768 00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:15,580 So right now the platform is very cinematic. 769 00:35:15,580 --> 00:35:19,580 And that's just because we got to establish a beachhead somewhere 770 00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:22,420 and expand from there and I know movies. 771 00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:28,220 But there's no reason that this shouldn't, 772 00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:33,220 once it grows, be able to support musicians, podcasters, 773 00:35:33,220 --> 00:35:37,980 live shows and feeds, you could imagine stand-up comedians 774 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:42,460 or a band playing a live show where people can tap in. 775 00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:45,700 I want film festivals to have a huge presence on the platform. 776 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:46,540 Oh yeah. 777 00:35:46,540 --> 00:35:49,620 Of course. 778 00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:51,980 Huge opportunity there for film festivals to do stuff. 779 00:35:51,980 --> 00:35:56,220 So music videos, I think there's, 780 00:35:57,660 --> 00:36:01,380 big opportunity there, there's short films, right? 781 00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:03,420 These are markets where there's no real way, 782 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:05,220 at least that I'm aware of, 783 00:36:05,220 --> 00:36:08,100 to properly monetize something like a short film 784 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,340 and a music video or at least, 785 00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:12,780 maybe if it's not a full monetization, 786 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:17,140 at least there's some kind of like, you know, reward for it. 787 00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:19,180 And the other thing is is they're not really aggregated 788 00:36:19,180 --> 00:36:21,220 in one spot, you know? 789 00:36:21,220 --> 00:36:26,940 Yeah, I mean where do, like if my niece, 790 00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:31,940 was an independent filmmaker and she had done a documentary 791 00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:35,700 about whatever, 792 00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:38,700 where would she put her film up, 793 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:42,020 like would she put it up on YouTube, on Bivio? 794 00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:46,860 Like I really don't know anything about where independent filmmakers 795 00:36:46,860 --> 00:36:50,340 or film students would post their independent projects. 796 00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:55,260 Hopefully, IndieHub, let's see, is that where I'm meeting myself? 797 00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:57,460 Ideally, IndieHub, you know, the idea there. 798 00:36:57,460 --> 00:36:58,820 Where do they do it now? 799 00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:00,140 Like, yeah. 800 00:37:00,140 --> 00:37:02,980 It's a real challenge and I think this is kind of what I'm attacking 801 00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:04,420 from an exhibition standpoint. 802 00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:08,260 Kind of back to those gatekeepers, 803 00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:09,700 there's a few people who get to decide 804 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:14,700 what go on, what platforms that have any real opportunity 805 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,660 of paying a filmmaker back or an investor in a film back at all. 806 00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:21,620 So there's a few options, right? 807 00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:23,820 Like either you're an original, 808 00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:26,540 they call them originals now, like a Netflix original 809 00:37:26,540 --> 00:37:28,700 or a Hulu original, in which case obviously the studio 810 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:30,420 is putting up the entire budget. 811 00:37:30,420 --> 00:37:36,300 And then maybe if you went and independently produce something 812 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:38,980 that was really, really incredible, 813 00:37:38,980 --> 00:37:40,500 you might get an offer from a studio, say, 814 00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,260 well, we'll buy the rights to this 815 00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:44,580 and we'll get exclusivity and we'll put this on Netflix. 816 00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:47,940 And here's a check, take it or leave it kind of thing. 817 00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:48,780 Yeah. 818 00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:52,100 Which, here's another thing, this is kind of a side topic, right? 819 00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:54,540 But like this whole model has destroyed residuals. 820 00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:57,740 You know, I'm sure musicians are in a slightly similar situation, 821 00:37:57,740 --> 00:37:59,460 but for actors back in the day, 822 00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:01,260 you made your living off of residuals. 823 00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:02,740 Yeah, you mean value for value? 824 00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:06,180 Well, back in the day, it was actually just residuals 825 00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:11,180 of the new model with networks or like Netflix or Hulu or whatever. 826 00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:15,500 They just tell you, here's the number, take it or leave it. 827 00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:16,780 You're not getting paid. 828 00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:17,620 Oh, I see what you're saying. 829 00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:20,420 There's no residuals like a syndication 830 00:38:20,420 --> 00:38:23,460 for a sign-thulter mash or anything like that. 831 00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:24,300 Okay. 832 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:26,780 And that was a huge part of the business if you were a, 833 00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:27,620 especially an actor. 834 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:29,980 I mean, that's how you made a living. 835 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:33,380 You know, it was this, a cruel of value over years 836 00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:34,220 and you'd get your check. 837 00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:36,260 So that's all gone, which is a real problem. 838 00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:38,260 That's what this most recent strike was, 839 00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:41,620 a huge part of the strike was about things like residuals. 840 00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:42,940 Mm, yeah. 841 00:38:42,940 --> 00:38:43,780 That's funny. 842 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:46,780 You say that because a big portion of what I heard the strike was about 843 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:48,860 or the only thing that really made it 844 00:38:48,860 --> 00:38:52,500 on the air over here was AI. 845 00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:56,620 I mean, yeah, it was, there was a lot of stuff going on. 846 00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:59,260 I'm definitely not the expert on the strike, 847 00:38:59,260 --> 00:39:01,460 but I definitely know for a fact 848 00:39:01,460 --> 00:39:05,460 that a huge part of the negotiation really had to do with residuals. 849 00:39:05,460 --> 00:39:08,500 And Netflix doesn't give anyone any information. 850 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:12,220 They just throw a stupid number at people they like and say, 851 00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:13,580 if you don't like it, then that's it. 852 00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:14,620 You don't get anything. 853 00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:16,020 They're not telling you if it's successful. 854 00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:17,340 They're not telling you if it's getting viewed. 855 00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:19,260 You don't have a financial incentive on the other end 856 00:39:19,260 --> 00:39:20,580 to do a good job. 857 00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:24,020 You're just, you just get paid and you leave and that's that. 858 00:39:24,020 --> 00:39:28,220 Dude, the pair, dude, you're telling me like Netflix is like, 859 00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:32,900 what, you talking about Netflix is like me talking to one 860 00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:36,900 of my buddies back in LA who's been dealing with UMG for years, 861 00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:38,940 just for music or Sony. 862 00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:39,940 It's the exact same thing. 863 00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:41,900 It's so centralized. 864 00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:45,260 Yeah, there's so much smoke in mirrors. 865 00:39:46,180 --> 00:39:49,300 Yep, yeah, it's uncanny. 866 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:52,540 Yeah, it's take it or leave it, you know? 867 00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:53,380 Yeah. 868 00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:57,780 God, okay. 869 00:39:57,780 --> 00:40:00,260 Wow, so that, so in a perfect world when, 870 00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,540 when IndyHub.studio is up and running, 871 00:40:02,540 --> 00:40:04,380 people will be able to go there, 872 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:06,460 look at independent films from, 873 00:40:06,460 --> 00:40:09,220 from filmmakers and artists around the world 874 00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:13,020 and zap and boost them with Sats and, 875 00:40:13,020 --> 00:40:15,900 and have that direct revenue stream. 876 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:18,420 Yeah, awesome. 877 00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:21,700 Which, yeah, I kind of, they're, 878 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:24,700 I sort of bailed on the on the rest of the last question, 879 00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:26,060 which was like, what are the alternatives? 880 00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:29,260 Okay, so you, if you don't have some massive offer, 881 00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:30,980 you know, then, then your best bet is you're gonna, 882 00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:32,780 you're gonna try to get it to an aggregator. 883 00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:35,780 And an aggregator is basically somebody who, 884 00:40:35,780 --> 00:40:38,900 I'm gonna buy the rights to a thousand movies or 1500 movies 885 00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:40,540 and I'm gonna go negotiate with the studio. 886 00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:43,220 And the studio doesn't want to negotiate with 1600 filmmakers 887 00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:44,220 individually. 888 00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:46,100 Just gonna like negotiate with this aggregator, 889 00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:48,500 the aggregator is gonna be like, cool, we got you a thousand dollars. 890 00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:50,700 You know, like my budget was 200 grand, you know. 891 00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:52,020 (laughs) 892 00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:53,020 - What? 893 00:40:53,020 --> 00:40:53,860 - Yeah. 894 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:56,100 - Just gonna cover up the cater bill. 895 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:57,140 - Straight up. 896 00:40:57,140 --> 00:40:59,260 And, and they're like, well, that's what we got for you. 897 00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:00,980 And so you just kind of take it and then, 898 00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:02,580 they put your money up on random places 899 00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:04,140 and then you see it in places and you're like, 900 00:41:04,140 --> 00:41:04,980 what the hell? 901 00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:07,300 And I'm not getting paid, but it's playing on stars or whatever. 902 00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:09,540 Um, it's, it's just a disaster, 903 00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:10,860 the whole thing's a disaster. 904 00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:11,700 - Yeah. 905 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:13,700 - So, 906 00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:16,340 really, I mean, where we are again today, 907 00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:18,860 just like we were in 2008 with technology, 908 00:41:18,860 --> 00:41:21,020 economic, the economy and politics, 909 00:41:21,020 --> 00:41:22,860 is we are at the, you know, that, 910 00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:23,860 that, 911 00:41:23,860 --> 00:41:28,660 Bermuda triangle of externalities is really forcing its hand. 912 00:41:28,660 --> 00:41:31,300 And it's a beautiful time for, for Bitcoin and value, 913 00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:33,180 for value to take off. 914 00:41:33,180 --> 00:41:35,340 - Yeah, I, I think, I think, 915 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:36,420 I think the timing is right. 916 00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:37,420 Timing is everything, right? 917 00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:39,020 Like there's this tension, there's this tension 918 00:41:39,020 --> 00:41:41,140 that it builds up and then it releases. 919 00:41:41,140 --> 00:41:43,620 And I think that we're in this moment of release, 920 00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:44,460 right now. 921 00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:46,380 Um, and, and that releases, 922 00:41:46,380 --> 00:41:47,380 uh, 923 00:41:47,380 --> 00:41:51,380 um, sort of looking for it's, it's, um, 924 00:41:51,380 --> 00:41:53,780 brought about, I guess, 925 00:41:53,780 --> 00:41:54,780 that's not what I was thinking about, 926 00:41:54,780 --> 00:41:56,100 it's brought about by this technology. 927 00:41:56,100 --> 00:41:57,220 The technology is the thing, 928 00:41:57,220 --> 00:41:59,620 it's the catalyst that really, you know, 929 00:41:59,620 --> 00:42:01,620 releases this pent-up energy and demand. 930 00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:02,820 And, you know, 931 00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:06,180 I fundamentally think that the reason, 932 00:42:06,180 --> 00:42:07,540 the music industry and the reason, 933 00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:11,420 the film industry are in a similar situation is because of the way 934 00:42:11,420 --> 00:42:15,260 that finance and money works in our current system. 935 00:42:15,260 --> 00:42:16,940 - Mm-hmm. 936 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:22,260 - And it disincentivizes art and artists to really do their job, 937 00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:24,140 because art and artists, in my opinion, 938 00:42:24,140 --> 00:42:26,700 our job is to progress consciousness forward. 939 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:29,140 And to do that, you have to live, you know, 940 00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:30,660 right on the edge of chaos and order, 941 00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:32,740 you have to be willing to take, 942 00:42:32,740 --> 00:42:34,220 outsized risk. 943 00:42:34,220 --> 00:42:39,060 And if, if you can't, then that job description, 944 00:42:39,060 --> 00:42:40,780 you know, is no longer applicable 945 00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:43,980 in society suffers and artists suffer and everybody suffering. 946 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:47,100 - You know, we all agree that like most of the stuff entering 947 00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:50,940 the society right now from like an artistic perspective 948 00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:53,340 is just garbage. 949 00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:55,420 It's just not good. 950 00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:57,100 - I would concur. 951 00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:02,380 - And so, I think that's a function of how the rails work 952 00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:04,900 and how money finds its way around the system. 953 00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:08,740 And this technology, Bitcoin Lightning, 954 00:43:08,740 --> 00:43:11,940 fundamentally alters the calculus on that. 955 00:43:11,940 --> 00:43:15,940 And I think that it alters it for everybody, 956 00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:19,060 but, you know, obviously you and I are cinema-centric, 957 00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:20,220 music-centric. 958 00:43:20,220 --> 00:43:22,060 So that's how we see it and that's what we're attacking 959 00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:23,380 and that's the problem we're trying to solve. 960 00:43:23,380 --> 00:43:25,300 But I just, at the end of the day, 961 00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:29,300 I want to use this tech to create a direct relationship, 962 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:30,780 a direct, energetic relationship 963 00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:32,420 between the audience and the artist. 964 00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:33,860 Similar to how you would be in a room 965 00:43:33,860 --> 00:43:36,300 if you were playing a live show or you were doing theater. 966 00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:39,540 - Yeah. - There's a direct, energetic relationship. 967 00:43:39,540 --> 00:43:41,980 - How many independent filmmakers are there 968 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:44,460 out there in America, do you think? 969 00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:45,300 - Oh man. 970 00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:48,060 Well, it's an interesting, it's a really good question. 971 00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:50,980 The closest stat that I've been able to kind of figure out 972 00:43:50,980 --> 00:43:54,420 and judge is just look at how many movies are submitted 973 00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:56,180 to Sundance every year. 974 00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:59,500 That's kind of a good way of figuring it out. 975 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:00,980 - I have no idea how many. 976 00:44:00,980 --> 00:44:01,980 Like, I don't know. 977 00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:04,220 - On an 28, 20 or 20,000. 978 00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:09,220 It's usually around, I think the last data I read on it was like, 979 00:44:09,220 --> 00:44:12,100 I don't wanna say it was like 14,000 movies. 980 00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:15,820 So let's say it's somewhere between 14 and 17. 981 00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:17,900 And the reason that Sundance is a good metric is 982 00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:19,420 'cause basically when you're a filmmaker, 983 00:44:19,420 --> 00:44:21,620 you just do a Hail Mary submission to Sundance 984 00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:23,060 in the festival circuit. 985 00:44:23,060 --> 00:44:24,260 - It just that everyone just does it. 986 00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:25,100 You just do it. 987 00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:26,460 That's what you do, even if you're not getting it, 988 00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:27,300 you just do it. 989 00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:30,460 So it's a decent proxy to figure out how many, 990 00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:32,220 at least films are being produced. 991 00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:37,220 So professional production, I would say there's hundreds of thousands, 992 00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:41,780 if not low millions, depending on how you calculate that. 993 00:44:41,780 --> 00:44:43,980 I mean, the market's expanding globally, obviously. 994 00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:46,260 - Yeah. 995 00:44:46,260 --> 00:44:49,700 - So tens of thousands, decision makers. 996 00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:54,700 - Do you think that, I mean, I share your disdain 997 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:59,700 for the amount of poorly crafted art. 998 00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:04,340 Poorly crafted art in the space. 999 00:45:04,340 --> 00:45:07,380 And I always have to preface, like when I say this, 1000 00:45:07,380 --> 00:45:10,380 like I'm not talking about what I like and dislike. 1001 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:12,100 - Yeah, 100% agree with you. 1002 00:45:12,100 --> 00:45:13,140 - That's not what I'm talking about. 1003 00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:17,300 I'm talking about a song that is poorly recorded 1004 00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:23,540 or poorly performed on tape, which is two different things. 1005 00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:25,820 - Yep. 1006 00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:29,380 - Or poorly crafted, you know? 1007 00:45:29,380 --> 00:45:34,380 And I've mentioned this time and time again, 1008 00:45:34,380 --> 00:45:39,380 you know, there's such a low barrier to entry on the music side 1009 00:45:39,380 --> 00:45:41,300 to getting in. 1010 00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:45,380 Like any knucklehead can grab one of those guitars 1011 00:45:45,380 --> 00:45:50,380 and post a song up on YouTube this afternoon. 1012 00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:52,300 - Right. 1013 00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:55,580 - I think the barrier to entry to your industry is much higher, 1014 00:45:55,580 --> 00:45:58,940 because just because of the sheer logistics and cost 1015 00:45:58,940 --> 00:46:02,780 associated with doing an independent project, 1016 00:46:02,780 --> 00:46:06,980 I mean, the industry, I'm familiar with, 1017 00:46:06,980 --> 00:46:10,660 there's, it's right with exceptional people 1018 00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:13,940 who really take care of everything themselves. 1019 00:46:13,940 --> 00:46:18,380 I mean, an oversimplified answer to that is Ed Sheeran, right? 1020 00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:21,860 A literal one man band in that regard. 1021 00:46:21,860 --> 00:46:25,060 But you guys don't have that luxury, like you guys, like, 1022 00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:29,540 God, I mean, to do a movie, like you gotta have at least two people, 1023 00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,300 somebody behind the camera and somebody in front of it. 1024 00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:34,260 I mean, I guess you don't, you get to have your cat, 1025 00:46:34,260 --> 00:46:35,260 but you know what? 1026 00:46:35,260 --> 00:46:36,260 (laughs) 1027 00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:37,220 - Documentary. 1028 00:46:37,220 --> 00:46:38,580 - Yeah, exactly. 1029 00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:39,420 - It's true. 1030 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:42,060 I've always held the opinion that filmmaking 1031 00:46:42,060 --> 00:46:43,740 is the ultimate team sport. 1032 00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:47,620 There is nothing that requires more teamwork 1033 00:46:47,620 --> 00:46:51,220 than making a movie that I've done in my life. 1034 00:46:51,220 --> 00:46:52,340 - Yeah. 1035 00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:54,780 I also have this belief. 1036 00:46:55,660 --> 00:46:58,060 Somewhere in America, somewhere in the world, 1037 00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:01,340 you know, it could be Fort Dodge, Iowa, 1038 00:47:01,340 --> 00:47:05,580 it could be Munchen-Glodbach, Germany. 1039 00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:07,540 There's a band out there that they've recorded 1040 00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:12,540 the next white album, the next Masters of Puppets. 1041 00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:16,500 And it'll never get heard because there's, 1042 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:18,660 and you know, and it's really sad, 1043 00:47:18,660 --> 00:47:23,660 but there's just, there's so much garbage out there. 1044 00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:26,340 And it's so, and the industry is so, like, 1045 00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:29,020 if we had a way to level the playing field with art, 1046 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:30,300 like they'd have a better chance. 1047 00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:32,900 Like, you gotta believe some kid, 1048 00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:36,700 somewhere, you know, Shaborgan, Wisconsin, 1049 00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:41,700 has like shot the next, you know, Fletch or Casino or something. 1050 00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:44,460 It's just something absolutely brilliant, 1051 00:47:44,460 --> 00:47:46,820 and but it'll never get seen. 1052 00:47:46,820 --> 00:47:52,300 - Yep, that talent will not be cultivated. 1053 00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:55,900 It won't be crafted, you know, 1054 00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:57,100 the discipline won't be applied. 1055 00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:58,100 It's a shame. 1056 00:47:58,100 --> 00:48:03,100 The Bitcoiners, I forget the, I forget the stat, 1057 00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:08,060 but basically it goes something like, 1058 00:48:08,060 --> 00:48:11,620 there's kind of a fixed ratio if you just look at the math 1059 00:48:11,620 --> 00:48:13,820 of how many geniuses there should be in the world, 1060 00:48:13,820 --> 00:48:15,380 like legitimate geniuses. 1061 00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:18,700 - What's the metric there? 1062 00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:20,820 What, 140 on the Mensa? 1063 00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:23,100 - Yeah, I have no idea. 1064 00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,420 There's a lot of really stupid smart people too, but. 1065 00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:27,700 (laughs) 1066 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:34,060 But their point is is that why aren't we, you know, 1067 00:48:34,060 --> 00:48:35,740 population is incredibly high right now, 1068 00:48:35,740 --> 00:48:36,860 billions of human beings. 1069 00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:40,420 There should be X amount of geniuses based on whatever 1070 00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:42,860 the math or the ratio is I've no idea. 1071 00:48:42,860 --> 00:48:46,980 But we're not, we're not seeing their outsized contribution 1072 00:48:46,980 --> 00:48:47,980 to society, 1073 00:48:48,980 --> 00:48:53,060 and that issue is, at my opinion, 1074 00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:56,220 one of incentives in the monetary system. 1075 00:48:56,220 --> 00:48:59,380 And just to your point, there's genius out there. 1076 00:48:59,380 --> 00:49:03,860 It's just, there's no, there's a very difficult system 1077 00:49:03,860 --> 00:49:08,860 that's not designed to recognize it and cultivate it. 1078 00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:12,620 You know, the incentives are just totally off. 1079 00:49:12,620 --> 00:49:15,460 - God, all right, let's dive into sociology, man. 1080 00:49:15,460 --> 00:49:16,580 We can do this for hours. 1081 00:49:16,580 --> 00:49:17,500 I love this. 1082 00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:18,340 - I'm in. 1083 00:49:18,340 --> 00:49:22,300 - You know, like I think too, like I don't think 1084 00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,260 that we as a species, I don't think we're done evolving. 1085 00:49:25,260 --> 00:49:27,820 - Oh, no, no. 1086 00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:30,580 - But what is technology doing to it? 1087 00:49:30,580 --> 00:49:33,420 Is it, is it dumbing us down? 1088 00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:38,420 Or is it, you know, is it making us more enhanced, you know, 1089 00:49:38,420 --> 00:49:43,340 like what if, I mean, just like in a weird way, you know, 1090 00:49:43,340 --> 00:49:46,260 like what if we were supposed to have six digits 1091 00:49:46,260 --> 00:49:47,460 on our hands and not five, 1092 00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:50,180 but the fact that we're all sitting here where their bones 1093 00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:52,380 and screwing up our thumbs, like what is that, 1094 00:49:52,380 --> 00:49:54,900 you know, what is technology doing 1095 00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:57,460 to the evolution of the species, so to speak, right? 1096 00:49:57,460 --> 00:50:00,300 Like, and I also love the point too about, 1097 00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:04,180 about genius, you know, you talk about geniuses getting discovered. 1098 00:50:04,180 --> 00:50:07,260 Like if you look back over time, like the smartest, 1099 00:50:07,260 --> 00:50:10,300 like the most creative people ever, ever. 1100 00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:15,300 And I don't care if it's creativity in physics, creativity 1101 00:50:15,380 --> 00:50:18,820 and medicine, creativity and art, they also, 1102 00:50:18,820 --> 00:50:21,460 they all of them, like the parallel is, 1103 00:50:21,460 --> 00:50:24,220 like there was some part of their personal lives 1104 00:50:24,220 --> 00:50:28,180 that was just an absolute utter disaster, you know? 1105 00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:32,860 So that, you know, like the brain, I always look at it, 1106 00:50:32,860 --> 00:50:34,860 it's like, you know, it's always balanced in one regard, 1107 00:50:34,860 --> 00:50:36,940 you know, like the brilliant guitar player 1108 00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:39,660 who can't balance his checkbook, you know, 1109 00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:42,260 the amazing physicist who, you know, 1110 00:50:42,260 --> 00:50:44,340 can't stop cheating on his wife, you know, 1111 00:50:44,340 --> 00:50:46,180 that type of stuff, you know? 1112 00:50:46,180 --> 00:50:52,100 - There's a really good book I recommend anyone, 1113 00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:55,580 everyone should read this book, it's called The Shadows, 1114 00:50:55,580 --> 00:50:56,860 I highly recommend. 1115 00:50:56,860 --> 00:51:03,020 Essentially, the conceit of the book is, 1116 00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:06,740 explores the question, really, 1117 00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:08,140 the bulk of the book is about the internet, 1118 00:51:08,140 --> 00:51:11,780 but to get to that point in the beginning of the book, 1119 00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:13,420 it talks about technology. 1120 00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:17,140 And it talks about how technology actually, 1121 00:51:17,140 --> 00:51:20,980 the tool alters the creator of the tool 1122 00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:23,260 as much or more than anything else. 1123 00:51:23,260 --> 00:51:25,820 So human beings go create technology 1124 00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:27,980 and then that technology actually fundamentally 1125 00:51:27,980 --> 00:51:30,140 changes the structure of our brains. 1126 00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:33,700 And so the tools end up altering us, 1127 00:51:33,700 --> 00:51:37,140 maybe more so than the tools allow us 1128 00:51:37,140 --> 00:51:39,100 to alter our physical environment. 1129 00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:40,580 And they go into the history of this, 1130 00:51:40,580 --> 00:51:42,300 it's super fascinating. 1131 00:51:42,780 --> 00:51:49,300 But it seems like, you know, the point is that it is unavoidable, 1132 00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:52,860 that any technology we use and interact with, 1133 00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:57,220 necessarily and fundamentally changes the structure of our brains. 1134 00:51:57,220 --> 00:51:59,940 That's any tool, it could have been maps, 1135 00:51:59,940 --> 00:52:03,300 you know, back in the day they talked in a book about maps being created 1136 00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:05,780 and how that fundamentally, no one had perceived the world 1137 00:52:05,780 --> 00:52:08,500 from outside above it before. 1138 00:52:10,860 --> 00:52:15,860 Anyway, phenomenal book highly recommended, really prescient. 1139 00:52:15,860 --> 00:52:21,260 But I think, my opinion on what you're saying is that 1140 00:52:21,260 --> 00:52:26,980 it's kind of like in film and storytelling, 1141 00:52:26,980 --> 00:52:31,420 the great stories are stories that reveal character. 1142 00:52:31,420 --> 00:52:36,420 They put character under a certain kind of pressure 1143 00:52:36,420 --> 00:52:39,060 and we'd like to see the main characters 1144 00:52:39,060 --> 00:52:43,020 under a particular kind of pressure to see who they really are 1145 00:52:43,020 --> 00:52:46,100 when shit hits the fan, when push comes to shove. 1146 00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:48,860 Money is kind of like that with people, you know, 1147 00:52:48,860 --> 00:52:52,020 you go give somebody, I don't know, $10 million or something 1148 00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:54,540 and like, that's not gonna reveal who they are. 1149 00:52:54,540 --> 00:52:55,460 It's not gonna change you there, 1150 00:52:55,460 --> 00:52:56,980 it's gonna reveal who they are. 1151 00:52:56,980 --> 00:52:58,220 - Amen. 1152 00:52:58,220 --> 00:53:00,700 - You know? - I totally agree with you. 1153 00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:01,540 - Yep. 1154 00:53:01,540 --> 00:53:05,900 And I think technology at a broader level, 1155 00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:08,500 it essentially does the same thing. 1156 00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:12,780 And so it's revealing who a lot of people are 1157 00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:15,100 and how a lot of people are. 1158 00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,660 And there are always going to be a particular, 1159 00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:19,260 you know, I don't know what the ratio is or number is, 1160 00:53:19,260 --> 00:53:22,140 but there's always gonna be people who use the technology 1161 00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:25,340 for a higher purpose and there are people who use the technology 1162 00:53:25,340 --> 00:53:26,180 for a lower purpose. 1163 00:53:26,180 --> 00:53:28,380 And I think that the technology is almost always just 1164 00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:31,180 revealing more about humanity than, 1165 00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:33,340 I don't think that it's destroying humanity. 1166 00:53:33,340 --> 00:53:36,780 I think that it just continues to reveal who and how we are. 1167 00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:40,860 - Yeah, and that's, I would agree. 1168 00:53:40,860 --> 00:53:42,860 And one of the things that I love about Bitcoin 1169 00:53:42,860 --> 00:53:44,820 is that no matter what your politics are, 1170 00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:46,180 what your religious beliefs are, 1171 00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:48,540 what your societal beliefs are, 1172 00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:54,780 there's an end for you on this, you know? 1173 00:53:54,780 --> 00:53:55,780 - Yep. 1174 00:53:55,780 --> 00:53:59,660 - There's a path in. 1175 00:53:59,660 --> 00:54:03,580 I had a great conversation in Phoenix a couple weeks ago 1176 00:54:03,580 --> 00:54:05,580 and I was down there for Culture Shock 1177 00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:08,140 in a, in a monster event with the Phoenix Club. 1178 00:54:08,140 --> 00:54:12,300 And I was talking to an individual 1179 00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:14,620 who's on the completely different political 1180 00:54:14,620 --> 00:54:17,060 and religious side than I am. 1181 00:54:17,060 --> 00:54:20,460 And it was so rewarding and so wholesome 1182 00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:25,460 to have a conversation about what we're passionate about. 1183 00:54:25,460 --> 00:54:30,460 And how we, how in this age where we're so divided 1184 00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:33,860 socially, politically, religiously, 1185 00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:39,660 that people are on two sides of the American spectrum 1186 00:54:39,660 --> 00:54:44,660 can really find common ground and have something to believe in. 1187 00:54:44,660 --> 00:54:48,580 And that common ground being Bitcoin. 1188 00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:54,260 I'll share the same thing with you that I shared with him 1189 00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:58,740 in that it's going to be interesting to see over time. 1190 00:55:01,780 --> 00:55:06,780 What happens with Bitcoin's adaptation? 1191 00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:10,500 And I believe it will occur. 1192 00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:16,780 I believe it will grow from being just bigger than 1193 00:55:16,780 --> 00:55:19,620 an amazing asset class or an amazing investment. 1194 00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:23,900 But what I'm kind of curious about is like, 1195 00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:26,780 if you go back to revolutionary time 1196 00:55:26,780 --> 00:55:28,340 and hour in hour history, 1197 00:55:29,420 --> 00:55:32,300 if you look at the John Adams of the North 1198 00:55:32,300 --> 00:55:35,060 and the delegation from the South, 1199 00:55:35,060 --> 00:55:38,700 in many respects they were on completely different sides 1200 00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:40,100 of the political spectrum, 1201 00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:44,420 but they had a common enemy in that common enemy was King George. 1202 00:55:44,420 --> 00:55:52,220 And what I worry about is we as Bitcoiners 1203 00:55:52,220 --> 00:55:54,820 have a quote unquote common enemy 1204 00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:57,020 which with respect to decentralization 1205 00:55:57,020 --> 00:56:00,900 and fiat currency in certain respects. 1206 00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:01,900 Right. 1207 00:56:01,900 --> 00:56:04,620 But what's going to happen to the community 1208 00:56:04,620 --> 00:56:08,580 once those goals are achieved and we get deeper and deeper 1209 00:56:08,580 --> 00:56:12,100 into decentralized cultures. 1210 00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:16,580 And I just hope that we can maintain our unity 1211 00:56:16,580 --> 00:56:22,580 as a group of maxis and not splinter and devour each other 1212 00:56:22,580 --> 00:56:24,740 because you can draw parallels. 1213 00:56:24,740 --> 00:56:28,420 It's kind of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing. 1214 00:56:28,420 --> 00:56:29,220 You know? 1215 00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:30,700 Yeah. 1216 00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:37,180 I think about this fair amount actually. 1217 00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:41,900 And I kind of back to the point about money revealing character. 1218 00:56:41,900 --> 00:56:46,300 I think that there are a lot of Bitcoin maxis right now 1219 00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:48,020 in the public sphere. 1220 00:56:48,020 --> 00:56:49,820 You know who I mean the private sphere too, but 1221 00:56:49,820 --> 00:56:54,540 that when this thing really rips, 1222 00:56:54,540 --> 00:57:01,540 and these people find themselves in positions of power and authority, 1223 00:57:01,540 --> 00:57:06,940 there's going to be a fair amount of them that don't make it ideologically 1224 00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:13,540 where the weight, the energetic weight of that much responsibility 1225 00:57:13,540 --> 00:57:15,780 will reveal who they truly are. 1226 00:57:15,780 --> 00:57:19,620 And it's easy to talk, it's easy to talk online, 1227 00:57:19,620 --> 00:57:21,620 and it's easy to talk shit and it's easy to type 1228 00:57:21,620 --> 00:57:25,780 and it's easy to understand Bitcoin and be on that side of the fight. 1229 00:57:25,780 --> 00:57:27,620 But it is a very different situation. 1230 00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:30,100 Somebody writes you like we said earlier, 10 million dollar check 1231 00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:33,300 or 50 million dollar check or 100 million dollar check. 1232 00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:36,140 Talk is cheap in that circumstance. 1233 00:57:36,140 --> 00:57:39,460 And I think that there's going to be a whole hell of a lot of people 1234 00:57:39,460 --> 00:57:43,860 that break in that circumstance. 1235 00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:45,540 It all happens. 1236 00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:46,300 Yep. 1237 00:57:46,300 --> 00:57:46,900 Yep. 1238 00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:50,820 And I'm not, I guess I'm not even making a point about whether 1239 00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:52,500 that's good or bad or whatever. 1240 00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:54,900 I think that weakness should be broken. 1241 00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:55,900 I think that's always good. 1242 00:57:55,900 --> 00:57:59,380 I think that's the point. 1243 00:57:59,380 --> 00:58:04,980 And there's going to be a lot of people who are able to walk the walk 1244 00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:14,780 and continue to further the ideas that we hold dear. 1245 00:58:14,780 --> 00:58:16,180 Or I shouldn't even say their ideas. 1246 00:58:16,180 --> 00:58:18,580 I actually think that it's a fundamental-- 1247 00:58:18,580 --> 00:58:23,780 I think it's more of a fundamental respect for the nature of this physical realm. 1248 00:58:23,780 --> 00:58:29,860 Decentralization, that's closer to how things should be. 1249 00:58:29,860 --> 00:58:33,380 Power is energy itself is-- 1250 00:58:33,380 --> 00:58:35,260 the universe is comprised exclusively of energy. 1251 00:58:35,260 --> 00:58:37,900 It's fully decentralized already. 1252 00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:40,660 This would be the point about Bitcoin mining, right? 1253 00:58:40,660 --> 00:58:42,740 As long as you have an energy source, you can convert to electricity. 1254 00:58:42,740 --> 00:58:45,500 You can participate in the network. 1255 00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:48,020 And so I kind of imagine it like we're 1256 00:58:48,020 --> 00:58:53,580 allowing for a vibrant, thriving ecosystem to grow once again. 1257 00:58:53,580 --> 00:58:56,060 But kind of like a jungle. 1258 00:58:56,060 --> 00:58:58,620 The jungle is like kind of a scary place. 1259 00:58:58,620 --> 00:59:00,860 It's not rainbows and unicorns in there. 1260 00:59:00,860 --> 00:59:03,260 Like you got to get fight your ass off. 1261 00:59:03,260 --> 00:59:04,260 Right. 1262 00:59:04,260 --> 00:59:08,700 Some of the smaller insects, just the little tiny ones might take you out. 1263 00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:09,540 Exactly. 1264 00:59:09,540 --> 00:59:10,060 Look at that. 1265 00:59:10,060 --> 00:59:12,060 So everybody who's been in the jungle says they're like, it's not the big stuff. 1266 00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:13,900 It's the little guy you've got to worry. 1267 00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:16,340 I don't worry about pythons. 1268 00:59:16,340 --> 00:59:17,380 Yeah. 1269 00:59:17,380 --> 00:59:20,500 Well, Zach, we have been talking for an hour. 1270 00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:24,220 And it's been a great conversation. 1271 00:59:24,220 --> 00:59:28,300 And I hope this helps launch Indie Hub. 1272 00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:31,020 And I hope you get a lot of inquiries 1273 00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:35,260 from independent filmmakers around the world. 1274 00:59:35,260 --> 00:59:39,940 That said, let's wrap it up with some fun questions. 1275 00:59:39,940 --> 00:59:40,940 Done. 1276 00:59:40,940 --> 00:59:42,860 And these are hard hitting. 1277 00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:46,020 And I expect honest answers. 1278 00:59:46,020 --> 00:59:46,340 All right. 1279 00:59:46,340 --> 00:59:47,060 Number one. 1280 00:59:47,060 --> 00:59:47,900 You ready? 1281 00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:48,900 Come on. 1282 00:59:48,900 --> 00:59:50,580 You know, I'm going to do this top five films of all time. 1283 00:59:50,580 --> 00:59:51,580 Go for it. 1284 00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:52,900 Oh, man. 1285 00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:53,900 Oh, man. 1286 00:59:53,900 --> 00:59:54,900 Come on. 1287 00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:56,100 You got the list off the top of your head. 1288 00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:59,380 Let's go. 1289 00:59:59,380 --> 01:00:03,460 Gladiator, American history X, 1290 01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:13,460 Chandler's list, Jurassic Park, the big Lebowski. 1291 01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:15,180 That's five. 1292 01:00:15,180 --> 01:00:15,980 We'll go with that. 1293 01:00:15,980 --> 01:00:17,260 That's what popped out. 1294 01:00:17,260 --> 01:00:20,260 Wow. 1295 01:00:20,260 --> 01:00:21,300 Baby private Ryan. 1296 01:00:21,300 --> 01:00:22,820 We got six. 1297 01:00:22,820 --> 01:00:25,740 Wow. 1298 01:00:25,740 --> 01:00:27,780 Interesting. 1299 01:00:27,780 --> 01:00:28,580 Interesting. 1300 01:00:28,580 --> 01:00:31,420 Nice to see the big Lebowski in there. 1301 01:00:31,420 --> 01:00:32,420 Just a gem. 1302 01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:34,260 Just a gem. 1303 01:00:34,260 --> 01:00:36,780 Who is the guy who played the assistant who 1304 01:00:36,780 --> 01:00:38,940 pet Philip Seymour Hoffman? 1305 01:00:38,940 --> 01:00:39,940 Yep. 1306 01:00:39,940 --> 01:00:40,980 I mean-- 1307 01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:43,220 Oh, man. 1308 01:00:43,220 --> 01:00:50,380 His work in Boogie Knights just blows me away. 1309 01:00:50,380 --> 01:00:52,300 He was so good. 1310 01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:54,500 He was one of the best of all time, 1311 01:00:54,500 --> 01:00:55,460 as far as I'm concerned. 1312 01:00:55,460 --> 01:00:59,980 The dude was an incredible actor. 1313 01:00:59,980 --> 01:01:02,380 Now, he's one of the few people that I actually really 1314 01:01:02,380 --> 01:01:04,220 got sad when he died. 1315 01:01:04,220 --> 01:01:08,860 I really was like, man, this is a loss for the art form. 1316 01:01:08,860 --> 01:01:10,740 He's-- 1317 01:01:10,740 --> 01:01:12,340 Oh, almost famous. 1318 01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:14,820 I mean, Philip Seymour Hoffman, it almost famous. 1319 01:01:14,820 --> 01:01:16,180 Oh, my God. 1320 01:01:16,180 --> 01:01:17,500 Come on. 1321 01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:18,180 Yeah. 1322 01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:24,660 He was great as the snotty little brat in sent of a woman, too. 1323 01:01:24,660 --> 01:01:26,260 You know? 1324 01:01:26,260 --> 01:01:28,300 Just-- 1325 01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:29,300 Yeah. 1326 01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:31,660 I mean, true master of his craft. 1327 01:01:31,660 --> 01:01:33,620 Yeah. 1328 01:01:33,620 --> 01:01:40,460 I'm surprised that none of those movies 1329 01:01:40,460 --> 01:01:44,940 that you just ripped off there listed, not ripped, excuse me, 1330 01:01:44,940 --> 01:01:50,540 listed, Martin Scorsese was not in any of those. 1331 01:01:50,540 --> 01:01:53,540 I mean, it's just too many great movies. 1332 01:01:53,540 --> 01:01:55,780 It's not because I don't like Martin Scorsese. 1333 01:01:55,780 --> 01:01:56,780 Is it-- 1334 01:01:56,780 --> 01:01:59,700 Is it in the film world? 1335 01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:01,540 Is it like, oh, we don't like him? 1336 01:02:01,540 --> 01:02:02,740 Like, is it-- 1337 01:02:02,740 --> 01:02:03,740 No. 1338 01:02:03,740 --> 01:02:04,820 Is it like, is it, really? 1339 01:02:04,820 --> 01:02:05,580 No. 1340 01:02:05,580 --> 01:02:07,060 I think-- 1341 01:02:07,060 --> 01:02:09,580 kind of like you said earlier, like, if anybody's-- 1342 01:02:09,580 --> 01:02:17,420 It's kind of hard to find people, which is this is sort 1343 01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:21,340 of a sad comment, but it's kind of hard to find people who 1344 01:02:21,340 --> 01:02:25,460 can look past something they don't like and just say that, 1345 01:02:25,460 --> 01:02:26,940 like, I might not like this. 1346 01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:30,660 This might not be my taste, but objectively, 1347 01:02:30,660 --> 01:02:32,100 this is a masterpiece. 1348 01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:32,900 Yeah. 1349 01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:35,220 You know, it's hard to find those kinds of people. 1350 01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:37,340 And I think Scorsese is like that. 1351 01:02:37,340 --> 01:02:38,420 It's objective. 1352 01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:40,980 Like, it's not really negotiable. 1353 01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:43,180 I don't think. 1354 01:02:43,180 --> 01:02:48,780 And everybody just kind of nods and like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1355 01:02:48,780 --> 01:02:50,020 Yeah. 1356 01:02:50,020 --> 01:02:52,940 Who directed Shawshank? 1357 01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:53,980 Spielberg. 1358 01:02:53,980 --> 01:02:54,460 Did he? 1359 01:02:54,460 --> 01:02:56,060 No, no, no. 1360 01:02:56,060 --> 01:02:56,340 No, sorry. 1361 01:02:56,340 --> 01:03:02,580 The cinematographer, he's always comes to my for Shawshank. 1362 01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:03,580 God, he's an absolute legend. 1363 01:03:03,580 --> 01:03:07,260 This embarrassing that he's escaping my brain right now. 1364 01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:09,620 We might have to ask Uncle Google on that one. 1365 01:03:09,620 --> 01:03:10,620 Oh my God. 1366 01:03:10,620 --> 01:03:11,620 So stupid. 1367 01:03:11,620 --> 01:03:12,620 He's just so embarrassing. 1368 01:03:12,620 --> 01:03:16,460 Um, like one of the great, one of the greatest cinematographers of all time. 1369 01:03:16,460 --> 01:03:20,060 Um, I can't remember. 1370 01:03:20,060 --> 01:03:23,700 I mean, Skyfall, um, Shawshank. 1371 01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:29,260 Oh, I gotta go back and watch the, I saw the, the first half of Skyfall on an airplane, 1372 01:03:29,260 --> 01:03:30,500 like a year and a half ago. 1373 01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:35,820 And I, and I haven't gone back and watch the back end of Skyfall. 1374 01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:38,460 I'm like, God, I gotta go back and see the back end of that movie. 1375 01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:40,260 So, um, all right. 1376 01:03:40,260 --> 01:03:41,260 Here's my top five. 1377 01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:42,260 All right. 1378 01:03:42,260 --> 01:03:43,260 You ready? 1379 01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:44,260 Good, fellas. 1380 01:03:44,260 --> 01:03:45,760 All right. 1381 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:46,920 Godfather. 1382 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,140 I'm trying to get my daughter to watch the Godfather. 1383 01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:52,420 And she doesn't, I'm like, God, drives me nuts. 1384 01:03:52,420 --> 01:03:53,620 She won't watch the Godfather. 1385 01:03:53,620 --> 01:03:56,220 I mean, there's some serious life lessons in there. 1386 01:03:56,220 --> 01:04:00,660 Like Tom Hanks was saying and you've got male, like, you know, you got to go to the mattresses 1387 01:04:00,660 --> 01:04:02,860 sometimes, you know? 1388 01:04:02,860 --> 01:04:05,660 So good, good, fellas, Godfather. 1389 01:04:05,660 --> 01:04:06,980 All right. 1390 01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:11,820 Rest in peace, PW Herman, because Peeley's big adventure is on my top five movies of all 1391 01:04:11,820 --> 01:04:12,820 time. 1392 01:04:12,820 --> 01:04:13,820 All right. 1393 01:04:13,820 --> 01:04:14,820 Uh, spinal tap. 1394 01:04:14,820 --> 01:04:15,820 Yeah. 1395 01:04:15,820 --> 01:04:21,260 And then classic, then, um, young Frankenstein. 1396 01:04:21,260 --> 01:04:22,260 Oh, good. 1397 01:04:22,260 --> 01:04:23,260 Yeah. 1398 01:04:23,260 --> 01:04:26,260 I mean, I don't know how Mel Brooks didn't get on there for me. 1399 01:04:26,260 --> 01:04:27,260 Yeah. 1400 01:04:27,260 --> 01:04:28,260 Yeah. 1401 01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:30,340 That's he's the, that dude's a legend. 1402 01:04:30,340 --> 01:04:31,340 Yeah. 1403 01:04:31,340 --> 01:04:33,340 What about blazing saddles, too? 1404 01:04:33,340 --> 01:04:39,580 Like you go, you know, you go back and watch it now and, and, and our, our culture now, like, 1405 01:04:39,580 --> 01:04:42,940 there's no way in hell that movie could be made, right? 1406 01:04:42,940 --> 01:04:45,700 You know, and you're like, and you're kind of conflicted watching it. 1407 01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:47,140 You're like, has this aged well? 1408 01:04:47,140 --> 01:04:48,140 Or is it? 1409 01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:49,140 No, not well? 1410 01:04:49,140 --> 01:04:50,140 Or is it still funny? 1411 01:04:50,140 --> 01:04:52,140 Is it, do I feel guilty for laughing? 1412 01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:58,540 You know, when the old lady comes up on the street, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah. 1413 01:04:58,540 --> 01:05:01,180 No, it's still, it's still funny. 1414 01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:02,180 It'll always be funny. 1415 01:05:02,180 --> 01:05:03,180 It's a true masterpiece. 1416 01:05:03,180 --> 01:05:10,260 And anybody who doesn't think that is, is, has been, their mind has been poisoned by, you 1417 01:05:10,260 --> 01:05:11,940 know, political correctness. 1418 01:05:11,940 --> 01:05:17,940 And they need to like rethink their entire, you know, how they got to this point in the 1419 01:05:17,940 --> 01:05:18,940 first place. 1420 01:05:18,940 --> 01:05:19,940 Like, absolutely not. 1421 01:05:19,940 --> 01:05:25,300 Yeah, you have to be able to laugh at yourself. 1422 01:05:25,300 --> 01:05:27,540 You have to be able to laugh at society. 1423 01:05:27,540 --> 01:05:31,100 You have to, um, yeah. 1424 01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:38,020 I, I, I still, you know, it's one of those ones who are when it comes on TV, if I happen 1425 01:05:38,020 --> 01:05:41,100 to run across, it's like, well, I better stop what I'm doing. 1426 01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:42,100 And yeah. 1427 01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:44,140 And watch the rest of this. 1428 01:05:44,140 --> 01:05:50,700 We saw a, a screening at the Nokia, um, of blazing saddles and Mel Brooks was there and 1429 01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:52,460 he did this long Q&A afterwards. 1430 01:05:52,460 --> 01:05:54,820 It was, it was, it was so cool. 1431 01:05:54,820 --> 01:05:56,220 He's just such a boss. 1432 01:05:56,220 --> 01:05:58,580 And he's, he was like, 90 years older, whatever. 1433 01:05:58,580 --> 01:05:59,580 He's still up there. 1434 01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:01,500 Just absolutely crushing it. 1435 01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:02,500 And he's still got it. 1436 01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:03,500 Yeah. 1437 01:06:03,500 --> 01:06:08,740 I was, I, I was at, um, I put, I mean, this will show you my age, right? 1438 01:06:08,740 --> 01:06:13,860 But I actually play, I like what one of the times I played a gig in LA at, uh, Genghis Cohen, 1439 01:06:13,860 --> 01:06:20,500 um, uh, Mr Brooks and Mr. Rainer were in there having dinner. 1440 01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:25,220 And, um, I, I was, you know, I didn't have the, I was probably drinking heavily at the 1441 01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:27,340 time, which is why I didn't go up and talk to them. 1442 01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:32,300 Um, a couple of people did and, and they said, you know, they were just so gracious and so 1443 01:06:32,300 --> 01:06:37,620 polite to everybody, uh, who came up, even, you know, I mean, they're, you know, that's 1444 01:06:37,620 --> 01:06:38,620 the way to do it. 1445 01:06:38,620 --> 01:06:39,620 Yeah. 1446 01:06:39,620 --> 01:06:43,940 A true boss acts and masters of their craft, you know, like these are people who really, 1447 01:06:43,940 --> 01:06:45,820 um, they were craftsmen. 1448 01:06:45,820 --> 01:06:50,300 They, they, they worked their, they worked their craft for their whole life and, and it's 1449 01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:52,460 just legends, true legends. 1450 01:06:52,460 --> 01:06:53,460 Yeah. 1451 01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:54,460 Good stuff. 1452 01:06:54,460 --> 01:06:57,300 Well, Zach, thank you very much for coming on. 1453 01:06:57,300 --> 01:07:00,220 Um, where can people find you? 1454 01:07:00,220 --> 01:07:02,460 Uh, in Indie Hub. 1455 01:07:02,460 --> 01:07:03,460 All right. 1456 01:07:03,460 --> 01:07:10,220 So, probably easiest is quitter, um, @indie hub, IND, EE, HUB. 1457 01:07:10,220 --> 01:07:15,420 Um, if you want to sign up for updates, Indie Hub dot studio is the website. 1458 01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:16,820 You can check it out there. 1459 01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:20,180 Um, if you're a filmmaker or musician or you have a music video or something like that 1460 01:07:20,180 --> 01:07:23,140 and you want to reach out and, and see if you can get on. 1461 01:07:23,140 --> 01:07:26,860 We've got a, kind of a private alpha or beta going on right now. 1462 01:07:26,860 --> 01:07:29,980 Um, so just reach out to me at that handle, at that Twitter handle. 1463 01:07:29,980 --> 01:07:36,420 Um, and, uh, if you're not on Twitter, uh, go to, you can, you can throw out an email, 1464 01:07:36,420 --> 01:07:40,660 Indie Hub studio at proton.me, just email me there. 1465 01:07:40,660 --> 01:07:44,980 Um, and we'll, we'll see if we can get you on the platform and, and I can give you 1466 01:07:44,980 --> 01:07:49,340 run some demos and, uh, show people, you know, how, how everything's working. 1467 01:07:49,340 --> 01:07:50,340 Fantastic. 1468 01:07:50,340 --> 01:07:53,060 That value for value in the independent film world. 1469 01:07:53,060 --> 01:07:54,060 I love it. 1470 01:07:54,060 --> 01:07:55,620 I can't wait to see it come to fruition. 1471 01:07:55,620 --> 01:07:58,740 So, um, all right, buddy, that'll do it. 1472 01:07:58,740 --> 01:08:00,820 We'll, uh, let's hang around a little bit. 1473 01:08:00,820 --> 01:08:03,580 We'll talk afterwards, but we'll let the music take us out. 1474 01:08:03,580 --> 01:08:05,260 But thanks again for coming on. 1475 01:08:05,260 --> 01:08:06,260 Sounds great. 1476 01:08:06,260 --> 01:08:07,260 This was an absolute pleasure. 1477 01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:08,260 It was a great conversation. 1478 01:08:08,260 --> 01:08:09,260 I really appreciate it. 1479 01:08:09,260 --> 01:08:10,260 A lot of fun. 1480 01:08:10,260 --> 01:08:12,460 Zach, thanks so much for coming on the show. 1481 01:08:12,460 --> 01:08:17,980 Really appreciate you joining us here for the random power business hour episode 10. 1482 01:08:17,980 --> 01:08:22,100 You can find him on Noster as well as Twitter and all of the, uh, socials. 1483 01:08:22,100 --> 01:08:24,580 Look for, um, Indie Hub dot studio. 1484 01:08:24,580 --> 01:08:26,580 His name is Zach Mahoney. 1485 01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:28,780 Um, I really love that conversation. 1486 01:08:28,780 --> 01:08:33,580 I, you know, we could have talked about the intersection of art and sociology for hours. 1487 01:08:33,580 --> 01:08:37,420 Um, but it's really cool what he is going to develop. 1488 01:08:37,420 --> 01:08:42,180 If all of you who love value, their value with respect to music, great. 1489 01:08:42,180 --> 01:08:47,220 As soon you're going to start see it with, with respect to film and independent filmmakers. 1490 01:08:47,220 --> 01:08:52,300 Um, it's just another great example of how we are on the edge of some major changes 1491 01:08:52,300 --> 01:08:54,100 in our society. 1492 01:08:54,100 --> 01:08:56,780 And I'm so thankful to be a part of it. 1493 01:08:56,780 --> 01:08:58,380 So thanks so much for checking us out. 1494 01:08:58,380 --> 01:09:04,620 I hope you had a chance to boost some sats and, uh, since I'm love that way, uh, it is Monday. 1495 01:09:04,620 --> 01:09:09,420 So that means on Wednesday, there will be another Phantom Power music hour. 1496 01:09:09,420 --> 01:09:13,140 And until then, smile for the mug shot. 1497 01:09:13,140 --> 01:09:13,580 See you later. 1498 01:09:13,580 --> 01:09:23,580 [Music]